This whole browser issue.

Penn State urges students and staff to find alternatives; many not concened

[pendanticist]

[dailypennsylvanian.com...]

But problems have grown so bad that officials at Penn State University recently recommended that all 80,000 students and staff switch to a different browser.

I was really surprised to see my alma matter taking such a stand. Especially after witnessing ( as a recent grad ), first-hand, how the youth uses the Internet. They download everything and anything. They also went everywhere and did everything.

I can truthfully say I have NEVER had a problem w/IE. It may be full of holes, but I've not fallen thru.

Has anyone seen other Institutes of Higher Learning doing similar?

Large Corps?

Is this the beginning of large-scale abandonment?

[choster]

I for one don't see a need to push for abandonment-- I wish more institutions would withdraw their official endorsement of IE to permit their users to select alternatives. Besides, Institution-wide platform changes are slow, so while individual departments or offices may have already made the move, the organization as a whole will take longer-- for instance, the article notes Penn won't even take up the question until the end of the academic year.

But yes, a number of universities have officially dis-endorsed Internet Explorer. Penn State is probably the largest thus far.

American University
[american.edu...]

Brandeis University
[web.brandeis.edu...]

North Georgia College
[ngcsu.edu...]

And even at institutions which are still "officially" IE shops, alternatives may be endorsed for non-Windows platforms, e.g.
[web.mit.edu...]

[AWildman]

A friend of mine who uses PSU computers but works for Pitt (long story) got that email telling them to switch to a different browser. Now, my friend's no dummy, although not as technically savvy as I, but still, her first reaction was to call me and ask what to do and why. They really didn't give their people enough information to make an informed decision about how to switch browsers nor did they promote a particular browser. I'm sure they couldn't given their licensing arrangements with MS, but still. I'm also sure they got a slew of calls at the campus support center!

BTW - I was a Penn Stater as well. Which campus did you attend?

[twist]

I got 2 IE browser hijackers about 4 and 6 months ago. They were obviously new versions of older hijackers because, at the time, there was no fix. I fixed the first one after around 3 hours of digging around for files and cleaning up the registry. The second time I got one I realized that it would take me less time to reinstall the operating system than to track it down.

[side note]
I keep windows on C: and all other data on other partitions, so re-doing windows only requires me to wipe C: and install a few applications over again. I also slipstream my windows and add in drivers. This is the only reason I can re-install windows in about a hour.
[/side note]

I have a hardware firewall installed and have IE set to default security. I got both hijack virus's from simply visiting websites. I didn't download or click on anything. It was from simply opening up pages on the web. If you haven't experienced this yet then you are pretty lucky.

I have used firefox ever since, I also know this problem will never happen with firefox because I have it set not to allow any website to install any software, which is default. I still am forced to use IE for windows update, cinemanow, and creative's auto-update feature but hopefully that will change soon.

[tedster]

It was from simply opening up pages on the web.

This is one of the more painful things that can happen when browsing with IE.

One of my clients has a small brochure site, hosted on Apache/Unix by one of the major hosting US companies. Last week their site (and many others at the same host) was compromised - with some added iframe code on every page - and many of their IE visitors got infected from the iframed page before we 3even knew it was happening.

Very upsetting to the site owner as well as their clients. But hacking, phishing, worms and viruses are now serious business, even deadly serious - much than just a nuisance promulgated by a few "script kiddies".

The web may look like civilization, but that's only an illusion right now.

[bcolflesh]

Penn State urges students and staff to find alternatives; many not concened

They should leave copies of Firefox all over campus with grilled stickies on them.

[vkaryl]

I just continue to consider myself the luckiest person on this earth: in all my years of surfing with IE, I never got one thing. I've been on FF for about a year now, and still marvel that I was "clean" for all that time.

It's far FAR better to be lucky than good.

[pendanticist]

>I wish more institutions would withdraw their official endorsement of IE to permit their users to select >alternatives.

While I cannot speak for other institutions, I do know that PSU and MS entered into an agreement whereby we, as students, were entitled to the full OS, the full Monty of Front Page as well as the entire Office group…free. At the time, the total costs for all hovered at around $1,000.00.

I am sure there was a trade-off somewhere.

> BTW - I was a Penn Stater as well. Which campus did you attend?

I received a Bachelor of Science in Criminology from Altoona College December 2002. Should I expect you attended Behrend?

> The web may look like civilization, but that's only an illusion right now.

<chuckle> I like that. :)

[twist]

I am sure there was a trade-off somewhere.

At my school we were allowed to take home and install copies of xp, office, VB and pretty much any microsoft software we wanted. The catch of course was that the school almost exclusively taught how to use microsoft software and nothing else. For example, instead of having classes on how to use spreadsheets we focused actual class time on memorizing hot-keys and templates that only pertained to excel.

Now years later, I use php and mysql on apache server and OpenOffice. I can only imagine their reasoning is that if schools train all the students on microsoft only software then business's have to use the software which they have to pay quite a bit for. If schools and students had to start paying full-price for the software I think there would be a huge shift over to open source software. Since most here already know all this I don't know why I am posting it. Maybe just still angry at all the time I wasted in school learning microsoft specifics which are of no value to me today.

[AWildman]

The free MS Office and OS software was an awesome deal...but it wasn't free! MIS students, such as myself, wound up paying an extra $1500 a year, presumably for lab fees cause we'd be using the computer labs more often. Um..if I'm in a technology field such as MIS or now they even offer CS, why in God's name would I need to use THEIR computers? I probably have a better one at home! Grr...Anywho, you're right, given the cushy software deal, the school taught mostly MS applications and when I got out into the real world, gee, big companies don't use Access as their database app! Imagine that. Thus, it comes as a bit of a surprise that PSU would in essence "break ties" with MS by sending out the email.

BTW - Yep. I went to Behrend. As does everyone else in Erie...

[pendanticist]

You and twist make two important distinctions, which slipped right thru the ole gray matter.

One. Yep. All my MIS classes were done w/Windows apps. I still refer back to my "Microsoft Office 2000 Introductory Concepts and Techniques" binder periodically. All my professors used PowerPoint and Excel frequently.

What with most campuses being decidedly multi-cultural ( both in Student and Faculty populations ) and the widespread use of MS products in many different languages, it only stands to reason that those would be the products to use in such an environment. PCs took off and Windows was making that possible.

Just like most campuses, we also had Linux Clubs, but they talked in codes and the concept was difficult to follow along with the normal course load. Too divergent for the times.

Two. Are you saying you equated the Computer Lab fees as intending to cover the cost of the OS and software? Everyone was assessed those charges, yet I know of very few who took advantage of it. Truth be told, I only really wanted W2k because I'd heard it was bulletproof when greed took over. ;)

As a Returning Adult Student ( whatta moniker, eh? ), I was opposed to being forced into using / paying for the labs that were continually full of younger folks doing Napster and such too. That was rectified the following semester when PSU put two PCs in every dorm room. Did I say, "at no apparently direct cost to students"?

Then again, I found it all together tough getting into the 'Rah, rah, rah' stuff you see. Couldn't make the transition from historical references of wide-brimmed hats, sticks with tapered school banners flying and Raccoon coats out of my mind...

Here's a thought. Imagine yourself as the instructor whose technological savvy is, shall we say lacking, trying to address an auditorium full of students who are using a variety of browsers when the question comes from the back of the class:

"Your course material website really suxs in Opera, dude. The images are messin wit 'da text and I can't read it."

To whit, the reply might be:

"I'll take that up with my work-study webmaster who knows everything about cross-browser viewability. Thank you for bringing that to my attention."

Uh, yeah...

Whatta relief when Altoona went Four year. Just couldn't see myself driving up to UP for the entire Senior year. The daily round-trip was near 100 miles. The old LeBaron was happy too. Scheduling classes would been a nightmare.

[twist]

What with most campuses being decidedly multi-cultural ( both in Student and Faculty populations ) and the widespread use of MS products in many different languages, it only stands to reason that those would be the products to use in such an environment.

Your pointing out the first flaw with this microsoft only environment. You know so little about other office software like OpenOffice that you don't even know it comes in 44 languages. In fact, almost all popular open source software comes in multiple languages.

I have a neighbor who decided to go back to college, she is taking classes in Office 2003. She just spent $150 for the student version. It's 2005(!), by the time she is out of school or while she is still even in school she will most likely have to buy Office 2006/7 or face the fact that when she gets out of school her knowledge is already outdated. Of course if she was learning OpenOffice she would constantly have the newest version, always be up to date and never pay a penny.

[pendanticist]

You know so little about other office software like OpenOffice that you don't even know it comes in 44 languages. In fact, almost all popular open source software comes in multiple languages.

I'm sure you're speaking figuratively here. Otherwise, how could you possibly presume to be speaking to what I know, much less in what manner to argue my point?

Let us assume those folks I referred to, have your level of knowledge with respect to applications. If so, then let us also assume that they all have the same level of Internet savvy as you do. With those as givens, then there really was no need for the article to have been written in the first place, was there? <- Rhetorical Question.

Think beyond the box a minute and put yourself in the position of the Professor who only professes to be a Professional Professor and keep in mind that the material turned in now belongs to the University.

Can you honestly expect those in academia to be as apparently knowledgable as you and still have the ability to excercise the applications turned in ( via floppy I might add ) for grading purposes? < - Another Rhetorical Question. Yeah, like they're gonna have fifteen million open source apps on their machines to facilitate your reasoning. Don't see that happenin'.

Professional Professor: "Hey, student from China, you turned in your assignment on time, but it is in Chinese."

Student from China: "Sorry, Professional Professor. My appologies as English is not so good and only learn program in my native dialect - Mandarin."

Professional Professor: "Yeah?!? Well my Chinese is even worse! I'm not an interpreter!"

I hope you see where I'm going with this.

Don't be so eager to show your expertise at the expense of someone elses logic, makes 'ya look, <shrug> I dunno...

added>

someone elses

/added>

[AWildman]

No, not computer lab fees. I know everyone had to pay those. But at most, at least by the time I left, they were only $90 (they started at $30!). No, what I'M referring to is the extra $1500 a year we had to pay for the privelege of being an MIS major. I forget how they worded it on the tuition bill, but when I called the bursar and said "what the?" they explained its cause we used their computer facilities more and took more advantage of the free software. RIGHT!

[twist]

Pendanticist, it seemed like what you were trying to say that the reason schools exclusively use microsoft products is because they are easy to understand and come in many languages so they are the only practical solution. It seemed by what you were saying in your post that you were unaware that other software also came in other languages. I was trying to point out that many programs come in multiple languages. I didn't mean to personly accuse you of not knowing this. I should have just said OpenOffice comes in 44 languages.

The only point I was trying to make is that school's should teach students how to use word processing software, spreadsheet software and database basics. Instead schools teach MS Word, MS Excel and MS Access. Instead of focusing on the basics of all three types of software, they waste precious time forcing students to memorize hot-keys that only work in microsoft products or microsoft menu systems.

OpenOffice has a word processer that spits out the same results as MS Word. The person reading the paper will have no idea on which program it was created on. As for databases, I was naively duped into believing that I had some sort of understanding of them because of my classes in MS Access, when in actuallity I knew nothing about databases when finishing school.