Support for very old browsers

need a script that will identify very old browsers

[moishe]

Howdy Ya'll,
I am currently building my sites to HTML Strict 4.01 withh CSS of course, but I have a client (a large urban church) that has many members using older donated p.c.'s on a free dial-up service. They have asked me to build an alternate site for these folks. My plan is to build a simple TEXT site and I want to send everyone using non-current browsers there---my question:
Is there a PHP, javascript or some declaration that I could put on my index page that would WORK no matter what browser hit it to send visitors to the text site? Also, would such a declaration then affect search engine robots or spiders or whatever?
Thanks much

[victor]

Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

Javascript -- no way. The browser has to be able to run JS for that to be any use.

PHP on the server -- a much better bet. Check the user-agent name, and go into "safe mode" if it's not on your A List of modern browsers.

[TGecho]

If you were careful with the stylesheets, you could feed the older browsers a simplified stylesheet that gives a useable experience while not having to do any browser detection.

Also, recommend firebird, which should run on most of those older computers ;)

[moishe]

I like the PHP idea, I am pretty set on the path of using an alternate text site in this case but I will definetly look into the CSS simplified solution for future projects. A question on PHP:
will the very old browsers have any problem acting on the PHP? It may be a dumb question, but my PHP knwledge is limited to using an include to pull sections of a page from the server.
Thanks

[victor]

The PHP happens entirely on the server side (usually!).

What the browser sees is the dumb HTML generated from the PHP. The browser will never know there was any PHP involved.

[encyclo]

TGecho actually has the right answer - you do not need to do two versions of the site when you are using CSS and making a table-less site. You simply need to import the stylesheet, then make sure your unstyled page is presented in a logical order with properly-structured markup (using h1, h2 etc. for headings, ul for lists...)

To import your stylesheet, use this:

<style type="text/css" media="all">@import "/path/to/stylesheet.css";</style>

Older browsers will ignore the stylesheet and get the unstyled page. Newer browsers will get the full effect. No browser-sniffing required (and browser-sniffing is unreliable at best). This is one of the strongest points about CSS design, and it will save you a lot of hassle.

[hartlandcat]

Just of interest... how "old" are these donated computers that people are using? I don't know where you live, but an "old" computer in the UK (where I live) is much older than an "old" computer in the US, and an "old" computer in Spain is infinitely older than an "old" computer in the US.

Also, do you know what "old" browsers these computers are likely to be running?

[moishe]

The oldest I have seen in this case is a 486 sx25 running windows 95a 420mb hd 8mb ram(4 on board plus 4 1mb 30 pin) and the browser that came installed (ie 1 or 2 maybe) and a 14.4 modem. I think most of the boxes are lowend P1's 100-166 running 95b, 98, or 98se with around 2 gig hd's, some with 16mb some 32mb and 33.6 or 56k x2 or flex modems.

[hartlandcat]

I think most of the boxes are lowend P1's 100-166 running 95b, 98, or 98se with around 2 gig hd's, some with 16mb some 32mb and 33.6 or 56k x2 or flex modems.

Those don't sound particularly old to me. Windows 95 OSR-2 came with IE 3.0, Windows 98 came with IE 4.0 and Windows 98 SE came with IE 5.0. All of those computers will be able run Mozilla Firebird or K-Meleon just fine, as well as Opera 7 or IE 5. Netscape 6/7 might be a bit sluggish though. Even the 486 could probably run K-Meleon.

[g1smd]

I would serve up the pages with the CSS called by @import so that old browsers don't see any of the CSS.

Put some links on the site to other sites where updated browsers can be downloaded, or else just find someone in the church with a posh new computer who can download the latest browsers, make a few dozen copies on to writeable CDs and then pass them around for people to borrow.