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I'm curious to know how many people worry about Netscape 4.X browsers and check them also...It can be such a pain in the a*s!
Thanks!
THANK you!
Frank
Period.
Netscape 4.x users are used to seeing messed up websites. What you should do is to block most of the CSS from Netscape 4.x by using @import. Don't bother trying to make your page look the same in Netscape 4.x as it does in more recent versions. Make those lazy users upgrade!
About the idea that you might loose business because of your site not looking good in Netscape 4.x... I shouldn't worry. About half the Netscape 4.x users are in Schools/Colleges etc. and are not in a position to buy online anyway. And I know this isn't a fascionable thing to say, but I believe that people still using Netscape 4.x are using old computers, and if they are using old computers, they are using them because they are too poor to upgrade, which means they are too poor to spend money on your website. Sorry if I sound snobbish, but that's probably the truth.
Nick
Enjoy your day!
Frank
[edited by: rcjordan at 10:07 pm (utc) on Aug. 12, 2003]
[edit reason] sorry, no references to your site, please. [/edit]
Nick
My only concern with specific user-agents is if they behave or not and if they don't; if i should ban them. Regarding display of pages, i care about standards compliance only, not specific UA's (unless explicitly told, debated, and argument lost, of course). I might be persuaded to spend time on "graceful decay" using CSS though.
My best guess is that there are more people out there using screen readers and other accessories that relies on valid code than there are NN4 users. Plus, not all bots are as brilliant as Gbot (tolerance towards faulty code), so the less enabled bots should also be catered to (as long as they behave, that is) - most of the time, one bot visiting benefits more than one real user, imho.
/claus
Well, i do block user-agents trying to crash my server, or looking for security holes, or unnecessary bandwith wasters, email harvesters or (...list here...) In most cases these user-agents are scripts or bots, though, but in the case of people i block them anyway.
As for NN4 users, i don't block them just for being NN users, in fact i don't give any them any special treatment what so ever. Users can use whatever browser they like as long as they behave, no problem. The NN4 users just might not get all the bells and whistles and the layout might not be just as nice, because their browser don't support all, but that's their choice.
I really don't care how they wish to view things, it's up to them - upgrades and competing browsers are readily available if they do wish a more compelling experience.
/claus
2% is very high for a Netscape 4.x percentage --- I get less than 0.5%.
Yes, 2% is more than the average site would get these days (About 1% is about average). Typically, if you're site has a techie focus your NN 4.x share will be lower than average, if it's audience is composed of government and/or educational institutions it will be higher (where NN 4.x usage can typically be around 5%).
IE v 5 and 6: 190,000 visitors
NS v 5: 83,000
NS 4.X and lower: 2,600
Yes...maybe just 2%, but also it is 2,600 visitors you could lose to a crappy looking site in 4.x!
Best,
Frank
One of our members has reported up to 20% I believe
Was it an NN4 support page? ;)
So yes, I do care about them, but not too much. I concentrate on the less buggy versions (NN4.7) and it doesn't need to look exactly the same as in other browsers. Just similar and usable.
I think the most important point in all of this is what percentage of your visitors are using older browsers? 2% can be a very large number if your site is receiving millions of visitors. If you can live without the 2% of your users, then go for it. If you can't, then you'll set up a secondary style sheet using the @import method and serve NN4.x users something close to what they would see if they upgraded their browser.
There are other options available to present alternate content for those older browsers, the @import method is one of them.
True about the European surfers, last report I heard at the search engine conference in Boston, almost 30% of their surfers use NS 4.X and below...
True about the European surfers, last report I heard at the search engine conference in Boston, almost 30% of their surfers use NS 4.X and below...
In that case, I believe they were wrong. Unless you mean Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe maybe...
Or maybe the stats are based on reports made by crappy browser sniffers?
I really doubt they are all wrong, I don't have the exact numbers, but this was a general consensus for all the top players there... Including a few people from Webmaster word :) who didn't want their identity revealed...as the same in the Internet Marketing Conference WebmasterWorld attended in Vegas a few years back....
Thankfully, the old codger will soon be going to his eternal reward in browser heaven. I only wish that IE 4-5-6 would follow along quickly.
IE6 - 58%
IE5 - 25%
IE4 - .6%
Gecko Based [mozilla.org] - 7%
NN4 - 2%
Opera - 1%
Unidentified - 4%
Other - 3%
Since Opera users can mask their identity, the number is probably a bit higher than 1%. I'll assume that the unidentified and other represent a portion of Opera users.
If someone has 30% NN4 visitor stats, then that someone needs to design using basic HTML/CSS and not worry about any fancy styling. You are limited based on the technology/audience that you are targeting.
