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I'm tired of creating multiple versions of code just to make sure that NN4 is supported.
I think we need make all our pages completely unusable for NN4 (after all this is easier to do than to make pages look right under NN4).
Maybe we need to sniff for NN4 and put up a big "Download NN7.0 to view this page banner".
If we all make sure that our code looks as bad as possible under NN4 maybe it will disappear all together!
What do you think?
And, er....
Who's willing to go first?
And again, I respectfully return to my bottom line note: Any person or corporation that is running such old software (old browsers or, for goodness sake, Win 95) is not likely to be a very potential customer for me... or, I'd suggest... for most folks.
I only recently upgraded to Win 98. The only reason I even could is because I mananged to get hold of some very cheap RAM, my computer wouldn't run it otherwise. It is nearly six years old after all. I'm no techno-illiterate, and the guy I share this computer with is even less (he's a computer programmer and writes web-based software for a living).
Yet we both shop online, a fair bit in my case. I'll even pay pretty high shipping charges if it's something I can't get here. If you're selling to consumers then there's no reason to assume that they will have the latest computer or that only people who don't know better run older machines or older software. I may not be able to afford a new computer but I have a lovely thinkgeek t shirt.
But I think that's what a lot of it comes down too - who are your audience. I can understand not supporting Netscape 4 if your audience doesn't use it, but there are also many cases where supporting Netscape 4 is a necessity. There's no one answer for everyone. Whatever you decide to support, just don't assume stuff about the people using it.
If you cut off access to older equipment you are cutting off a large part of the emerging world.
Personally, I find sites that try to push me into using browser X arrogant and they will lose my business.
Well, let's see.
The percentage of people using NN4 on my site is now under 4% as of the last month or so.
The percentage of people visiting from outside U.S. and Europe is less than 5% I believe (it's harder to break down).
I'm sure here's some intersection in these two groups... so perhaps 3% of folks visiting my site are using NN4 (or older) and hailing from poor non-Western countries.
I'm guessing this group comprises, oh, maybe 0.02% of my site revenues?
And you're saying that because I refuse to spend my time catering to this 0.02% at the expense of the other 99.98% of my contributing visitors, that I'm arrogant?
Guess I am, then.
> If you cut off access to older equipment you are
> cutting off a large part of the emerging world.
I'm not behaving any different than a restaurant which has a sign "No shoes no shirt no service." Are those restaurant owners arrogant because they're shutting out the folks who can't afford shirts and shoes? After all, if the restaurant lowered its standards and served caveman style, it'd be more accessible for everyone! So what if it had to then spend more money on cleaning and deoderizers than fine cooking?
> Personally, I find sites that try to push me into
> using browser X arrogant and they will lose my business
Personally, I find it sad that friendly encouragement to get with the times ("Please consider upgrading your browser to better enjoy the Internet... it's 100% free! Here's how:") is considered arrogant, rather than helpful or encouraging.
The clear fact is... for my site, and likely most others, I sincerely believe there is *NOT* a substantive economic or other barrier plaguing the majority of folks lagging behind. Sure, there are exceptions, but I am willing to bet that the VAST majority of people coming to my site on NN4 *COULD* and *WOULD* upgrade if they had both the info and the encouragement to do so.
I'm helping to provide both. I think I'm doing a service... for them... for the majority of my up-to-date visitors... and yes, for myself, too... freeing up my time to focus more on the content and community of my site than NN4 hacks.
Again, if that makes me arrogant, I relish the label.
Like a lot of things in this world you may not like it but unless you have the power to persuade and time for that persuation to take effect trying to force the issue is going to hurt you.
I've heard estimates ranging from 2%-10% or so, but never over 15, much less 20% in the last 6 months!
That said, your main point is well-taken... we all have to make decisions based upon our own preferences, the reality of our site's viewership, and so on.
Given that, how about a campaign to educate users that they really can upgrade to nn7 and not lose their email accounts or old email.
I don't recall if that was imported over automatically or not.
My bookmarks weren't copied when I downloaded it. That in itelf could present a major problem for a lot of users. They just don't know how to do those sorts of things.
I fail to understand why we need a new verion of HTML every two years, and a new browser every 6 months. Most of it seems to be upgrade for the sake of it.
I'd say the most pressing reason is that the NN4 browser doesn't even support the HTML and CSS that were standards when it was released. It is so bug ridden that it's shameful. If it were a car, a washing machine or even a toaster, it would have been recalled long ago.
Personally, I find sites that try to push me into using browser X arrogant and they will lose my business.
That is absolutely your right, but at some point you have to keep with the pack or get left behind.
IMHO, the NN4 users fall into 2 predominant camps -- They low-tech crowd that started with Netscape and don't know how to upgrade, and the anti-Microsoft crowd that are so stubborn that they'll use a broken browser rather than a decent one.
You can't blame the low-tech crowd -- they don't know any better.
The Anti-Microsoft crowd is the real puzzler. The Netscape zealots could upgrade to Version 6, and the "I've got an old pc" crowd could use Opera. Both are infinitely better than NN4.
There's no excuse for not changing.
I do understand why some people chose not to support Netscape 4.0 and I don't actually bother to test my pages using it either. But it's the assumptions like "4.0 users don't know better and must be educated" that I don't like. Upgrading my computer to Win 98 and the most recent version of IE 5.5 was a gigantic pain that cost me both time and money. It was not free or easy. If you can be sure your audience is from the US and lives in the same conditions as you then your assumptions probably hold, but I don't think they do for an international audience. And I'm not talking "emerging countries".
This is why sites that tell me to upgrade automatically lose my business.
