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I have been dawdling about making site(s) for a year now, and today have spent most of my time cutting code (CSS is godlike).
So...yeah, yay, i cut my code on my mostly text based site by 10%. Great. Hopefully that will rank me high(er). I have no probs with HTML, SSscripting and the likes....it can all be learned
Its' the graphic design I want the heads up on!!
Can anyone offer some design tips in regards to layout? I know recent threads have discussed choice of colours etc, but I wouldn't mind hearing what everyone has to say on the wider subject. Basically, im not graphically minded :)
Any pointers leading down the right roads is mucho appreciated :)
2. Make relationships between content elements so that your information or navigation has a logical flow.
3. Try out different layouts/ navigation until you are comfortable with the results.
4. Keep your target audience in mind always and make sure that your decisions don't go contrary to what you have seen work for other people.
5. Choose a color scheme that fits in with the mood you are trying to create but always remember that legibility is the key.
6. Use key images to support your content and enhance your message.
I guess I could go on and on but this is basically how I start if I don't have a vision in mind already for the site. Otherwise if a certain idea strikes you just try creating different variations of the idea and see where it leads you. Have fun.
For me, this is the most important step - you just CAN'T do a good design until your know what it is, exactly, that the design must support. Visual design must communicate the site structure and be the carrier wave that delivers content.
This "organize all your content" step is so big. Once you've done it, you know what will be the principle sections - the major menu items - and how many subsections you need, etc. You will know what kind of future growth, if any, the site will need to accommodate.
That will show you a lot about what the page must make plain and obvious to the user in graphical terms. Then you can start playing with layout.
I always do this step in Photoshop, not a WYSIWYG editor. Using Photoshop layers I can create, hide, move and shift elements with ease. Not so if I begin in, say, Dreamweaver. Then there's already a lid on my creativity and I'm using a layout editor that is trying to accommodate HTML. I prefer to begin with NO accommodation, just a sort of pure "creative" space.
For a major site, I spend days and days doing this step. For me, having several sleep cycles in the design process is essential for tapping creativity. I've never done a design in one day that held up.
(edited by: tedster at 9:22 am (utc) on May 26, 2002)
tedster, a true statement indeed!
widhadh brings up some excellent points, the most important of course being organization. Not only organization of content, but organization of html, xhtml, css, javascript, etc. Sub-directory structures are extremely important.
> Can anyone offer some design tips in regards to layout? I know recent threads have discussed choice of colours etc, but I wouldn't mind hearing what everyone has to say on the wider subject. Basically, im not graphically minded.
Hey bro, I like to keep them simple, clean and with a well planned Chain of Command as I like to refer to it as. If you are working with css and absolute positioning, content management is an absolute breeze.
Personally I'm a fan of duotone designs. More or less meaning the use of two colors to achieve the desired message. I've always found that style of design to be very pleasing on the eye, with very little distraction! The use of highlight colors throughout the site are an added touch of a well thought out color structure.
I'm just getting into .css .inc .php and the like. Last night I stripped my bare bones layout site and reduced 10% of the code throughout the site. Most of my pages are between 4 and 10k, great.
The whole pre-planning thing, yeah, I sure can appreciate it. A well thought out design won't have to be changed for....at least 2 days (jk)....months.
Thanks for all the pointers so far. I'm probably asking for something I can't do.....make a "graphically appetizing" site.
If there was anything that I feel I lack in (even as a relative newbie) its the "look" of a site. I don't care for flash too much and my art skills have always sucked.
Along these lines, has anyone got any neat tips that can change me from an idiot savant to a Mozart of web design? :) Well, I mean tips, but since its an art.....I guess guidelines would be better.
Hi brotherhood_of_LAN.
Whenever I build a site I try to have a ballance. Compact layout, fluid navigation, content etc all the basic requirements encapsulated within a nice aesthetic look.
Having said that it really is a difficult task to get the right blend, especially when keeping or trying to keep the load times down.
Some of the best sites I have seen only use a few graphics and they look stunning.
Graphics can make a site but they are not something that should be forced on a design.
When looking at some sites you can see that the graphics look out of place and are only their for 'graphics sake'.
The real challenge is to get the right ballance.
Cheers,
Stickymaster.
Even with Google, their logo and "next results" bit (goooooogle) has a nice colourful simple element that makes the page "complete"
Im gonna start churning through WMW profiles :)
A bit of random surfing - sites I would not normally visit - sooner or later I see a colour combination or graphic layout that gives me an idea for my project.
(I don't 'nick' it, just let it kick me off in a new direction)
Commercial Art is 99% in your learned skills and 1% in your genes, IMHO. People just don't realize how much there is to learn. I believe that there exists a "visual language" one needs to learn, with its own grammar, syntax, styles, tricks, etc.
It is not something some people are born with and others not. If you feel weak in that area and want to get stronger, get some training.
Also, most people don't make an effort to see profoundly. They don't really put their full attention on looking, they just "glance". If you re-learn really seeing the world around you (as if you were an infant again, or blind for a year) you will get a great visual education - just by learning to observe keenly. One way to do this is to take up fine art photograph as a hobby, or pen or pencil sketching.
For example, try this (if you dare). To experince color anew, get a pair of very deep red (or other mono-color)welding goggles - so deep red, that all other colors are missing. Wear them 24 hours a day (or use only red lights at night) for 3 days. Go outside to a colorful environment (like a garden in bloom) and take off the goggles on the 4th day. You will experience color. By the way, don't be suprised at how much color you begin to see through the goggles, the human visual system is quite adaptable.
For design inspiration, look into art history and/or look at the best magazine ads. Adobe has some good visual inspiration links on their photoshop site and a web search will find more of that.
Like any other skill, graphics is a matter of learning and practicing.
Yep, I understand that some graphical skills can be learned, but I think there is more than 1% involved in the genes :) From what i've read...the creative element of a persons brain is the opposite to that of the logic side. Seems I spend too much time looking at code, and trying to deduce a google algo (or something to that extent) :)
I guess by looking at art, other peoples' sites, and the like can give me an "idea" as to how to go about it.
My first post here was "check out my site" hehe....one comment was the colour of green used was " a little funny on the eyes". This is the sort of thing that I might "perceive as ok" but many other people don't.
There must be a "webmasters handbook to colour codes and layout of visual design" somewhere :)
i'm a pretty good programmer, and i'm in much the same position. i've concentrated on getting sites working well and stuck with basic designs that sort of worked ok.
although i'm quite good at technical drawing (internal workings of an engine etc), my art skills never really progressed beyond schoolboy cartoon graffiti of the headmaster, for which i got 6 of the best ...
rather than learn design stuff properly, i've cheated and got myself a new girlfriend who just happens to be an art student (just finishing her art degree right now). she's already given me new designs (on paper) for a couple of sites - i just have to implement them.
maybe if i'd hung around the university a bit longer i could have found myself an art student that knows how to use a computer?
brotherhood_of_LAN wrote:
...
From what i've read...the creative element of a persons brain is the opposite to that of the logic side. Seems I spend too much time looking at code, and trying to deduce a google algo (or something to that extent)
1. So you're saying that programming is not creative? I thnk programmers are often very creative, even though the final code that results has to be very logical, literal, in perfect syntax, etc. So too, the final result of computer graphics creativity has to be technically correct. Seems to me most design/development endeavors have a mostly creative and also a mostly technical or logical component.
2. This left side/right side of the brain thing is mostly new age pseudoscience and urban legend and has only the barest scientific basis.
3. I believe that everyone is quite creative, though in our society many have blocked it or let it atrophy. For example, a person with a "math block" really and honestly can't do math, even though they probably could if they only changed their belief system, learned the techniques a practiced a bit.
Of course, there are certain mental problems that can intefere with mental activity, but I'm talking here about people with normal mental health. Whether it's worth the considerable effort to overcome such blocks is another issue and a personal choice.
To me it seems that most people who claim they are not very creative don't even have a serious "mental block". Maybe they just need to develop or learn some techniques and get in some practice and after a time will decide that in actual fact they are quite creative.
4. Here is my "thought experiment" that attempts to prove that most everyone is very creative.
Do you dream at night? Every remember one of your dreams, like when you wake up suddenly with it fresh in your mind?
Think about your night dream(s). Are they not filled with wild and strange happenings, scenes and characters? Wasn't the person who "dreamed up" this material creative? Unless you believe that dreams are "out-of-body" experiences, come from your ancestors, etc. - you are that creative person (minus your daytime inhibitions).
There must be a "webmasters handbook to colour codes and layout of visual design" somewhere
I keep wanting to write a color scheme book or better, a program. Alas, I don't have the programming skills and haven't found the time to learn them yet. If you do a search on "color scheme" (think it's called "ColorSchemer"), you will find one such program - maybe more.
Am currently writing an eBook on developing creativity, getting more in touch with the source of your personal creativity (your unique nature) and using the practice of photography as a method of doing these things, as well as a way of growing a "personal photographic vision".
What do you all think about "personal creativity"?
Not exactly...I don't see programming as non-creative....but their are definite, finite confines in programming...ie "programs are preprogrammed"
But I totally agree with you.....different program languages can produce millions of unique programs......and since humans have to "create" the programs, yeah, they would best be creative to be a good program
On the other hand, I think things like colours, shapes, and the general layout of a site are a totally different concept of "creativity". For instance, with WMW, the site is text rich, which is great for people like us looking for nuggets of information.
But there is always an "image" made of any site. Part of the image IMO comes from the layout of the site. Perhaps even Brett and fellow designers of WMW reflect personality in the design of the site? Feedback from users also fundamentally change the layout...ie their is an ideal for layout just as much as there is an ideal for lean mean code and high ranking pages. "Art" is an art, and its safe to say its one of the arts im not good with. Saying that programming is an art is debatable :)
IMO there is always improvement in a website at every level. After all, why haa the WMW banner changed? Is it a design reason, branding reason etc etc?
I guess all in all there is a lot more "fuzzy logic" going on in regards to design and the "image" and "branding" effects you want your site to have.
