who named them "Bookmarks"?

[Don_Hoagie]

I believe one of the senior members here recently pointed out that IE was the only browser using the term "Favorites" instead of "Bookmarks", alluding to IE's lack of standardization. I certainly agree about the point of IE being annoyingly unstandardized...

However, did it ever strike any of you that "Bookmarks" is actually a ridiculous term? Is there some precedence to using that term on the web- some valid reason for using it? Because I can think of a few reasons NOT to use it...

1. The Internet is nothing like a book, mostly because it does not have a beginning and end. Fancy that.

2. Bookmarks are not used to cite points of interest- they are used to mark progress... and as I just stated, the Internet has very little linear progress going on.

3. You use one bookmark. One.

4. Though some of you may feel the need to give a nod to our ancestors, the fact is that the Internet is now vastly more important to humanity than the book. A book can be contained within the Internet as well, whereas the opposite is certainly impossible. To attribute book-derived terms to something that is greater in value and scale is a bit like when you're at a fine art museum, and some yokel from Kentucky declares, "hot damn, this here Mondrian guy makes pic-a-tures that look like my Rubik's Cube!"

I think "Favorites" is actually a much more valid name... or perhaps "earmark", "reference", "place of interest", "shortcut", "dog-ear", "sticky" (gotta plug WebmasterWorld)... most of these terms are just as recognizable to the world as the term "bookmark", and are more accurate in their definition.

I'm not implying that IE has it right (well, maybe I am)... just that all the browsers should have used a better phrase.

[pmkpmk]

Nobody. As you can see in Wikipedia on Bookmarks [en.wikipedia.org], Opera was the first browser to actually call them Bookmarks.

IE: Favourites
Opera (old versions): Hotlists
Mosaic: Hotlists

I think the analogy to real-world bookmarks is just soo obvious, that the common subconsciousness called them that way.

[Robin_reala]

Actually, I think it was Netscape 1.0 that introduced the term.

[peewhy]

I recently bought a DVD player that has 'bookmark' facility ... I think it's just the nearest equivilent to the process in marking a page. Thankfully it wasn't called 'Dog Ear'

[Don_Hoagie]

Dog-ear rulez.

Well, point is that I think we're only saying that it's a logical term because we've used it for a decade... some of those other terms I mentioned are actually more logically/linguistically correct, but now that we're used to bookmarks, there's no point in going back.

I blame Steve Jobs, because... well, why not.

[LifeinAsia]

No, blame Al Gore!

If he wants to try to take credit for creating the Internet, he also gets the blame for anything "wrong" with it.

[twist]

When in school I had a book that had over 1,200 pages. The book was $110 used and I definately wanted to trade it back in and get my money back so I didn't want to fold any page corners, which I typically did. I used bookmarks to mark the sections that seemed important so I would be ready for the final exam.

[Hester]

A screenshot of Mosaic Netscape 0.9 has a menu at the top calling them "Bookmarks". It's on a site called Origin Of A Browser - The Netscape Museum. There's a link from the SillyDog Netscape Browser Archive, if you have that bookmarked like me for testing various incarnations of that browser. Do a Google search for the links.

[jdMorgan]

Yeah, my copies of the Windows Resource Kit books each have dozens of bookmarks stuck in them -- I don't see that 'one bookmark per book' is a necessary restriction of the term, at least not with more than a thousand pages in the book.

Jim

[RaefWolfe]

I call them favorites because that's what they are, my favorites, the best ones impo. I don't bookmark the best books, I read them all in one sitting (even if it does take me 9/10 of the day <_<)

[oddsod]

I call them footprints. I don't really care what IE or Firefox call them :)

What's in a name? What's the big deal?

[tedster]

What's in a name? Control of the market. News organizations and governments understand this more and more, as well as companies.

If you are the one whose naming becomes the standard, then competing products seem more alien and you retain your market share. If you can get a trademark, then you lock it in even more. As far as I can see, MS lost the battle to rename Bookmarks -- but they won so many others that the loss is minimal.

[Robin_reala]

Well, if you ask nicely enough I'm sure someone will write a Firefox extension that'll allow you to put in your own name for them :)

[oddsod]

tedster, it's unlikely people choose a browser based on what it calls footprints. Whoever coined the term "bumper" for a certain part of the car doesn't have any commercial advantage from it today, does he?

[pmkpmk]

Whoever invented the term 'Post It' DOES have a commercial advantage.

And if the bumper got invented today, you can bet that it would have a fancy, brandable name... Protect-o-paint or something...

[Hester]

Yeah but there's no guarantee what name will win out. We call vacuum cleaners "hoovers", because Hoover got in early on. But they could just as easily be called dysons, henries or some other brand.

It's the same with "iPod", which has now led to "podcasting" etc. Apple just got in there early, and got big.

[oddsod]

Interesting examples, Hester. Does Hoover benefit from the company name being a synonym for vacuum cleaner? But perhaps it did at some point...

In any event, and irrespective of any trademark issues, I will continue to call my own footprints whatever I want :)

[pete_m]

Don_Hoagie: The term "Bookmarks" is more accurate when you consider the Internet as akin to a reference book or encyclopedia.

1. The Internet is nothing like a book, mostly because it does not have a beginning and end.

Well, an encyclopedia doesn't have one either - people don't (usually!) read them cover to cover.

2. Bookmarks are not used to cite points of interest...

They are in reference books, as others have mentioned.

3. You use one bookmark. One.

Again, not if you're researching from a reference book.

Personally I'm not a fan of the word "Favourites". I do a lot of - sometimes boring - research work on the Internet. Some of my "Favourites" in IE are pages that I really don't want to read! :)

[pmkpmk]

The longer I think about it, the more I am convinced that "shortcut" would be much more appropriate.

[Robin_reala]

Pete - the other problem with 'favourites' is that they're not: they're 'favorites'. MS never seems to have bothered with en-GB l10n on IE.

[Don_Hoagie]

The longer I think about it, the more I am convinced that "shortcut" would be much more appropriate.

Agreed, though I did realize an issue with "shortcut" is that Windows machines reserve the name "shortcut" for the quick reference icons you can place on your desktop. Serves the same purpose, but a menu command in IE for "Create Shortcut to this page" or something would certainly cause confusion as to where that shortcut is going.

Of course, my experience in I.T. tells me that few people actually know how to create those desktop shortcuts from a web browser anyway...

P.S. Yes, you guys are right about the "one bookmark" thing being an invalid argument... I never use bookmarks to reference pages in a large book, but now that you've all brought it up, I recall that many people do.

[pete_m]

the other problem with 'favourites' is that they're not: they're 'favorites'...

Wow, you're right. I don't think I ever noticed that! Mind you, I read so many US websites and use "center" in CSS so much that I just don't notice American spelling nowadays.

I quite like the term "Shortcut" as well - maybe we should start a petition with Firefox ;)

[Hester]

In Windows, a shortcut means a link to a program or file, so I don't think it fits. Because every browser except IE calls them bookmarks, it's best to stick with that.

The most popular common name always wins, even if it is not 100% accurate. The UK Conservative government years ago introduced the "Community Charge", but everyone called it the "Poll Tax" instead. (Even Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher by mistake once, which she quickly corrected!)

[oddsod]

Hester, but the spin is a lot smarter today. And they spend more money on it. You will learn to call the speed cameras safety cameras ;)

[andrea99]

Usage rules and usage will not change unless a better word comes along that just rings true in many ears.

It could happen but I just don't know of any other word that people would intuitively associate with often used links.

I haven't heard one yet in this thread, it can't be one of the old words because they had their chance and just didn't catch on. I think we should call them clickeroos or maybe jammerpies. Gizzletwitchers has a nice ring to it.