Forum Moderators: open
re: Where we are going with the forum?
I'd really like to start focusing a bit more on hard news. What is coming clearer is a system where 50% is pre-moderated news posts, and the other half unregulated open posting. We just have to address the noise factor in some forums. People are not finding the really good stuff. The homepage has been helping in that regard, but I'd like to take it a step further.
>what is the noise factor
Your basic "me too" posts. Things that include zero information. If a post is shorter than say about 3 lines/120 chars, there's a high likelihood that it is a me too post. Posts that add nothing to the discussion. Take the update thread for example, 20-30 posts are pretty meaningless there.
There are also the obvious post count builder posts. I'd guess 50% of the "has the update started yet" posts are just post builders. There are even people who start posts knowing we will delete them just to build post counts. It's a growing problem. It's why we cut off post count in the local category - a wasteland there for a couple of.
>4. Recommendations as to how to handle.
Any time you spot a repetitive "me too'er", start backing up their posts when you see them with a better post. Once people see it is ok to post "hey, that's what I thought", then the next person does, and the next, and we are off to the races trashing a thread. All it takes is one quality message to stop that. It doesn't have to be a thesis, just something with a bit more meat too it. Often, a one paragraph post is all it takes.
Me and the mods do experiment with this whole idea of "thread karma" that turn threads in new directions. We've boiled it down to about 4 basic styles of posts:
a- The thread killer:
A message designed in such a way that it stops a thread cold. It is usually the type that you have to read between the lines to get the real meaning. It's hard to explain, but sometimes just a normal message can shut down a thread cold.
b- The me too.
When things get slow, I've been known to post a "me too" type post. Once they see it is ok in a thread, they can let it rip. We are into a bit of that with the update and google threads. (file it under: be careful what you wish for). Sometimes that really keeps people interested and does eventually bring out new topics.
c- Super Threads.
We've both seen threads just take off for no apparent reason. Some times threads just click with everyone. It may not be the most important thing in the world, but for some reason, they work. This is a very difficult one to id it's causes and in effect - manipulate. It is an ongoing case study for me and probably the thing I find most fascinating about the internet and cyber space discussions.
There are a few main ingredients to "The Super Thread".
1) A quality poster with some forum history. Forum personalities have a better shot at a super thread. It's not unheard of, but it is rare that a new user can start a super thread.
2) Topical. Has to be a topic that affects just about everyone.
3) Money. If money is involved, there is a higher degree of likelihood that the post will take off. Go figure.
4) Moon Phase. There is a great nonstop river of "mood" that runs down the backbone of the internet. You can feel it run from message boards, mailing lists, and even news stories. If you can tune in and "take the pulse" of the internet, there are ways to work that.
(Ran into the above while researching an answer for a member.) Still looks applicable today.
Still looks applicable today.
I'd say far more applicable today then when when you first wrote it. Of course, I feel guilty about posting this, because now it looks like a "me too" post.
I think there are a few problems:
1) Some people come here looking for advice. Rather than trying to search the forums to find an answer to their question (which admittedly can be difficult at times) they post their question. The same question (best web host, best tracker, etc.) that's been posted once a week for the past year. To them - no big deal. To the regulars - "Oh no - not THAT post again!" But as long as you have new visitors - the lifeblood of any community - that problem will exist.
2) Some people come here looking to chat. This is a community, with a lot of regular inhabitants, and I suspect people are often looking for the chance to speak with others with similar interests. Do those posts enhance the technical quality of the board? Probably not, but they make the posters and the respondents happy to be here. Foo posts, which seem to garner the ire of some administrators as wasted bandwidth, certainly fall in that category. But hey - I started shaving with a Mach 3 after reading the shaving thread! (And I love it, by the way.) So who knows what is really useful...
3) Some people - myself included - don't know when to shut up. We just want to help...I think that new members are likely to chime in with useless advice a few times, until they see a followup by a real expert and realize maybe they should have held onto those thoughts before hitting the submit button.
4) Sometimes someone gives really good, thoughful advice - a couple of follow ups in agreement lets the original poster know that perhaps that is the best advice. I realize those can turn into me-toos, but I think even those are sometimes useful.
5) Product placement posts - I've actually come to enjoy those, since you have educated the board about them. New Poster one - "whats the best XXX software - I tried Brand A and I hate it - it's junk." New Poster 2 - "Oh, have you tried Brand B - it rocks!"
Those have become funny and I try to identify them myself for the heck of it.
6) Post count junkies - Don't know what you can do about that. Probably ignoring them is the best advice. Anyone who has been here a while knows that certain posters - regardless of their post counts - offer thoughtful advice born of experience. I don't think post count matters to most here.
Last thought - you're a victim of your own tremendous success and hard work. These problems come because so many people want to be here. It could be worse - you could be asking how to get people to visit WebmasterWorld!:)
Post count junkies
How about 'Quality poster' points. Moderators could determine if a post has quality or provides real added value to a thread.
This may just encourage users to stop the 'me,too's' or posting for the sake of being involved and being seen.
This may also be difficult to implement or regulate?
Just an idea...
Not necessarily so. If you just want to post a link to another thread that is pertinent, then its a short line count, but hopefully valuable to the thread
>> post count junkies
I have always found it interesting to see how susceptible Internet users are to post count vanity (read edit count vanity in volunteer directories). I suspect that the use of post count counting does "help" to keep the forums moving. It is difficult to avoid getting the rough with the smooth.
You could always do away with post counts altogether. Lack of post count "credits" does not seem to stop people posting in the Supporters Forum
How about 'Quality poster' points. Moderators could determine if a post has quality or provides real added value to a thread.
That seems to be some what of a good idea. A few concerns are much like this thread it was a great thread when wrote and still a great one now. But it never went anywhere until Brett himself gave it a bump. You would have to have enough Moderators to make sure no good posts are missed. If to many posts are missed then you have the adverse effect of "post count junkies" you would have people resenting the Moderators for not finding their posts and feelings of favoritism being the only way to get a respectable status even though that the status of an individual doesn't matter. Removing the post count would be a good way to avoid all of it but even myself I look at how many times a person has posted all the time. Mainly when its a "repeated" question to see if they are new to make sure I welcome them to the board.
Oh yeah and Me Too!
That doesn't figure! ;)
Removing the post count could be as troublesome. In my mind, this place has a ring of credibilty that is tied directly to the long time members whose continued and regular participation has helped build it.
Post counts and registration dates help the newer members sort out who is who. That may not be the perfect system, but it may be the best available untill a member has had a chance to become familiar with the consistent quality of another members posts.
It seems to me that the more important aspect of the "noise factor" is the credibilty of answers.
There do seem to be days when the same or similar question appears on the thread lists, some times only a few threads apart. That kind of noise might be better dealt with in the welcoming emails sent to new members. Another alternative would be for the already loaded down mods and admins to consolidate threads, but that hardly seems fair to ask of them.
This latter noise is an education of the new members issue more than anything else in my mind and from my limited experience here.
As far as "me too" posts go, perhaps the first handfull (3 - 4) in a thread contribute a validating effect to whatever the point is. After that they may add less to the thread and make finding valueable info more difficult.
The best "me too" or related comments I've experienced are those that go on to add substantial info or perspective that has not appeared in the thread to that point.
I don't think the 'me too' posts are that wasteful. An example would be the recent deep crawl thread. Most if not all are 'me too' posts-but that's what we want to see.
Allowing these loose threads gives webmasterworld a certain "texture".
It takes a few visits or some deep reading to realize just how valuable this forum is/can be.
Small one line posts are sometimes very valuable!
When I first joined I found many gems amoung 'me too' posts...now a bit less- but still find things to ponder.
Off topic posts (within reason) can add a sense of community and help get to know other members since we are all anonymous.
This posts may as well be called- "Why is webmasterworld in Alexa top 500?" :)
I think the open forums are fine 'as is', and look forward to more good stuff in the members area.
The Moderators seem to do a very good job.
If those issues are still relevant today- 8 months later...but webmasterworld has become more successful, they can't be *that* bad.
"If it ain't broke- don't fix it." :)
Regards,
AW
There do seem to be days when the same or similar question appears on the thread lists, some times only a few threads apart. That kind of noise might be better dealt with in the welcoming emails sent to new members. Another alternative would be for the already loaded down mods and admins to consolidate threads, but that hardly seems fair to ask of them.This latter noise is an education of the new members issue more than anything else in my mind and from my limited experience here.
There are two issues here, rather than one single problem.
1. You have (generally) newbies who post the exact same question in multiple forums simultaneously. (I've seen one person post the same question in 4 separate forums within minutes of the original posting without bothering to wait for a response. Unusual and an extreme example, yes, but it happened all the same.)
2. Folks who don't get the response they want/need from one forum, then post the same question in a different forum several days later.
The first could, indeed, be lessened by an email to newbies explaining that such multiple postings are necessary nor are they desired.
The second is not necessarily a bad thing. Not very often, but I myself have posted similar questions in multiple forums. Usually when I'm not sure where to post to begin with to get the best or most knowledgable response. Sometimes there are questions that overlap categories, so it's difficult to decide where best to post the question.
Yes, it appears that someone's asking the same question just a few days after a previous thread touched on the same topic. However, there are some folks who don't visit "recent posts" all that often. Some people just hang out in certain forums and the only way to get their attention and their responses is to post in their preferred forums.
I don't know if this solves any problems or just creates new ones, but I think it's something to note all the same.
OK, this may sound funny, but try thinking of this forum like it's your girlfriend for a minute. If you wanted to change or improve something in your relationship, you'd need to talk about it! How many people have even read this thread here? I think if you decide this issue is important enough(?), you'll drag it out to the home page (or in other words, 'honey, I think it's time we have a little talk...;)
If I'm not mistaken, didn't that happen when the spamming problem became serious a while back? I haven't seen that issue raised in some time, so maybe it helped to resolve the problem?
side note -
>The thread killer
It's no fun being the thread killer. It reminds me of how I felt playing softball when I would bat into a double play with 1 out ending a nice 4-run rally for my team:(
