Forum Moderators: open
All very informative and interesting. Many times, when I read what I consider to be a really enlightening reply, I go to the user's profile and see if they have a homepage to visit. I figure that if they know so much, their site must be a model of perfection, or at least professional enough that I may learn one of two things just by exploring their layout, navigation, etc.
However, the majority of the times (maybe 8 out of 10) there is no homepage available. Why is this? Is there a need in this forum for concern? Is it to protect yourself from lurking competitors? What are people afraid of?
Bottom line- I would like to know if it is a conscious effort by the veterans based on their experience. Am I opening myself up for any attacks, such as the user who received death treats at his email, by having my homepage posted? : )
Jose
Especially if you say something someone doesn't like.
1. Some people are in awesomely profitable and low competition niches and when they say in a post that they are in a high profit/low competition niche they really dont want everyone who reads that to see what the niche is and make there own site.
2. If discussion gets heated I dont want the guy I flamed to come back and hack my site or click 10,000 times on my adsense ad to get me kicked out...
To add to the list
3 often you can back-track a webmaster's entire network of sites from their one site, exposing their whole business model, not just one site. *adjusts halo* not that I've ever, of course..
4 The cobbler's children have no shoes. Many of us put our best work into clients' sites. Our own sites often languish, or in fact we have no intention of marketing heavily through them - they are a necessity rather than a showpiece.
So, not only did I get to find out what he's thinking, and detailed info on all his techniques, I also got an easy entrez into rich new source of useful SEO information I was ignorant of before he so kindly gave me the link. I'd like to thank the turkey for his selflessness, because he really did roll out the red carpet.
...reminds me of another competitor who listed all the retail shops where you can buy his products (we're both wholesalers). Wanna guess how I got a mailing list of his customer base for a tasteful little postal campaign, which converted a ton of his best buyers to my camp? Idiot!
caveat bozo
Knowledge is power, baby. As they used to say in World War II: Keep mum chum--loose lips sink ships.
That, speaking for myself at least, is one reason why you won't find a link to my site on any SEO forum.
caveat bozo
*ROFL*
I like your style, luckychucky
Here are links to a few previous discussions on this topic - you can see what a few dozen folks had to say about it a while back:
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]
Very interesting, specially the previous threads on the subject. I can better understand now the motivation behind some of these actions, and the obvious need to keep "intelligence" information out of the competitor's hands.
On the other hand, I cannot understand why would anyone put out on a public forum any data that could be construed as valuable information to a competitor. It seems pretty naive.
In my case, I will leave my homepage where it is. I'm not running a major enteprise, don't consider any other sites as competitor as my wife's creations are unique. I've worked hard for almost a year now to get it where it is, with no webmaster, SEO training, doing it part-time during deployments so we are very proud of what we have.
So again, thanks everyone. Appreciate the responses.
Jose
I'd like to thank the turkey for his selflessness...reminds me of another competitor who listed all the retail shops where you can buy his products...guess how I got a mailing list of his customer base...caveat bozo
That should answer your question. If you are in business your are in competition, whether you know it or not. Perhaps you are of a flexible mindset and will simply find another business if you are beaten out... but it's still a competition.
That's why some of us are in this arena... it is the "final analysis" where, after all the garbage is boiled out, the bottom line is performance and the rewards is wealth. What you don't know is money you don't have (yet).
At the same time, a politician that won't publically defy his party, might anonymously break ranks if his conscience tells him it is the right thing to do (but she won't admit it). Lucky for all of us, many of the experts are willing to share before they retire, as long as it is anonymous.
Besides, I was a bozo from Moment #1 by choosing a non-obscure WebmasterWorld user name. Again, "So be it."
It's sort of like a relationship -- yes, the more you give, the more it's going to hurt like hell if you get dumped on. But, the more you give, the more you stand to potentially gain, as well. In this case, the potential gain is in contacts that actually understand what you do, potentially have services/products/knowledge that would be useful to you, etc. It's cheaper than attending every Pub Conference, in my book.
Now excuse me while I knock on wood and sacrifice something to the web gods, because it would really piss me off if someone decided to be a snot just because I posted this.
All within reason. On a particularly generous day you might choose to lay a US$10 bill on a panhandler, if you're extra flush at the moment and you feel like doing good. Or you could give him small change, or give nothing at all. But I hope you wouldn't write your home address on a card and hand it to him, tell him he can stop by anytime for a hot meal and a bath.
There's little reason why virtually any online discourse whatsoever can't be conducted in anonymity rather than with full disclosure of your name, address, date of birth, hair color, private kinks & fantasies, who you voted for, or credit card numbers. Anonymity is nice. Anyway, you can always privately stickyMail anyone, no need to broadcast your privates to strange geeks. Notwithstanding that most of us on WebmasterWorld are such nice folks (sincerely, I do mean that).
Good luck, all. Anonymous or not, this is the place to be!
I can see what some people consider to be the disadvantages and they may have a very valid point in their particular case...and that's fine with me. However, what bothers me about the secrecy is that in my opinion there are a lot of so called "experts" out there in every forum that I visit, dispensing advice right and left to young, impressionable newbies...probably without really having the credentials to support their advice.
I only believe in hard, cold facts and statistical data, not subjective comments from a pseudo expert...in other words, put your money where your mouth is. If you say your site is a PR 7 or 8, show it to me. If you are giving advice on how to construct a page, then show me yours,...otherwise, at least I for one will totally dismiss your advice. By hiding in anonimity, your advice could be the result of ulterior motives instead of a genuine interest to help out new webmasters. This is probably the best reason to have the homepage listed...to back up your claims of "expert", if you care about stuff like that...I do.
I know some people may say..."well I don't care if you consider me an expert or not"...fine, I won't.
Appreciate everyone's comments!
Reread luckychucky's post about boundaries. Very sound.
I find it pays to bear in mind that on a forum of this size, and with as many 'strong personalities' here as we have, any incorrect or dubious advice is very soon countered.
There is a very genuine altruistic ethos around this place, but it is done under the very sensible principle of 'teach a man to fish', rather than 'give a man a fish'.
Being an altruist doesn't have to mean handing someone the keys to your car and home and moving into a shack yourself.
Its the substance of a person's posts that provide the best proof of their knowledge and expertise, not whether or not they choose to list a URL or other identifying information.
In a perfect world, I'd like to see everyone feel comfortable sharing a URL, but that ain't gonna happen. It's actually pretty amazing a site like Webmasterworld exists and thrives when at some level we are all competing with one another (for customers, search engine rankings, advertising revenue, etc.)
...probably without really having the credentials to support their advice...
Eggy - I have yet to see a "credential" that qualifies one for excellence at webmastering, let alone SEO. I've been through the route - performing, hiring, and collaborating. It's knowledge and experience - not credentials, and it's evident in the first 45 seconds of conversation.
I only believe in hard, cold facts and statistical data, not subjective comments from a pseudo expert...in other words, put your money where your mouth is. If you say your site is a PR 7 or 8, show it to me. If you are giving advice on how to construct a page, then show me yours,...otherwise, at least I for one will totally dismiss your advice.
Hahahahahahaha. Of course! And as soon as you sign that agreement and deliver that deposit you'll get just that. If you want that for free...(?)
I agree with the genuine altruistic ethos in this forum, no argument there. However, I don't understand the fish analogy. I'm not asking the fisherman to "give the fish to the newby", but to "show the newby the fish he caught"; then, I believe the newby would be more receptive for the fisherman to "teach him how to fish." Also, I don't see how posting your homepage is similar to "handing someone the keys to your car and home...etc".
gopi wrote:
"I will listen closely to guys without any URL listed and who are here for atleast a year --- all this shows they are shrewd ,expirenced and run profitable websites (so they obviously want to hide!)"
Gopi, I don't think there is any way to verify that everyone who joins this forum owns a website. Maybe the person just wants to have a website in the future. If that person is giving advice, I want to see his/her website, otherwise he/she could be a very smart 12-year old kid at the home computer just having a good time. It may sound farfetched, but who knows.
I could spend a lot of time writing on this subject, but I won't, because I'm not interested in changing anyone's mind, and I'm getting ready for a trip. : )
Also, I understand very well the need for secrecy in certain situations...it is part of my military career...However, I just wish there was a better way for so called "newbies" to discriminate and find the real "expert" advices...and I still think that "showing" that you can do it, is still a good idea.
Additionally, websites are available on public pages. If an individual owns a highly competitive site, I doubt very much that even shrouded by anonymity he/she would be so naive as to ask any questions in any forum that could give the competitors a hint on the strategy, techniques, etc.
Why is it so hard then to post a URL to a public page?
If you are so afraid that what you say is going to affect your site so terribly, then you may as well keep your mouth shut : )
Unlike other forums ,Most people here are serious professionals and not some hobbyists (except the adsense forum i think!) ... many here derrive most of their income from web , some in hundreds of thousands per year and few in million! ...
Like it or not the techniques used by many here dont have the blessings of the SE's , so if a guy is naive enough to post his main URL , someone can jeopradize his livelihood with just a single spam report!
Ya there are some kids out here (not 12 but in 16-19 range i guess) but they must be making more money than their 24 year old brothers :)
>> If you are so afraid that what you say is going to affect your site so terribly, then you may as well keep your mouth shut
Thats what the biggies do :)
I don't do seo. I don't run commercial websites. It's no one's business what my sites are or look like, or if they rank anywhere at all (they don't). I get a TON of great info here, I give back when and if I can (not often, actually, because I'm not nearly the bright guy so many folks here are!), and even for someone like me it's generally pretty easy to sift the wheat from the chaff, speaking of posts and posters....
