MS Stories on WW going too far?

MS bashing, just reporting the news, or Webmaster Advocacy?

[webdevsf]

It is becoming apparent to me that this ww is becoming an open source advocacy forum, mainly due to the comments of Brett. He has made it clear that he opposes MSFT, Bill Gates, and proprietary software development.

I make my living developing software on this "evil" platform, and have no intention of switching. I am thrilled with the level and quality of software I get from MSFT. They have the best developer relations program I have ever seen. They have some of the most brilliant and innovative developers that I have worked with.

The problems and security holes in IE and windows have rarely affected me. And I don't believe that they should be held to a different standard than other companies in this regard (this includes past security issues, such as buffer overruns). I also believe that simple implementations of free and very cheap software like firewalls, and anti-virus software, effectively eliminate 99% of these problems.

I have no problem with open source. Some of the work that is done there is terrific, and I think FireFox is among them. What I do have a problem with is individuals who think its the answer to all software development related problems, to the exclusion of many logical arguments.

I have a problem with supporting a website that is actively lobbying its members to bring down the company that supplies myself with my livelihood, and whom I believe is not held to the same standard as other companies.

So, given the change in direction of this website, I'm deciding whether its worth my while to continue to participate and support it. Before i make my decision, I'd like to hear from others here, moderators, Brett, pro-open source, pro-MSFT, and neutral, about this. I'd also like to know from Brett and other administrators if this is a main goal of the site now, and if so, how do you plan on keeping MSFT developers interested and not alienated.

[tedster]

Here's a post I recenty made in the moderators forum.

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Because we are "News and Discussion for the Independent Web Professional", we necessarily reflect what is called the news cycle - as we recently discovered in spades. As we look for relevant news and then generate commentary for and from our membership, I think it's essential for us to become quite savvy and world-wise.

The "News Space" is like a huge collection of spammed-out forums. Many news sources are like forums that arre not only victims of spam, they openly invite spamming - and even make their living from the spammers' kickbacks.

There are definitely some nuggets of information in the News Space every day, but there is also a gigantic pile of corporate spin, PR, and marketing that is not really news at all. It is more like what we could call an Info War.

If we are here to serve (as our tagline says) the "Independent Web Professional" then we should grow very savvy about the corporate controllers and influencers of the the news, and not be a mere reflection of the daily spin cycle.

Of course we don't have a huge staff of reporters to turn up and check stories, so to a large degree we can only reflect the Info War. But to extend my "spin cycle" metaphor, we can add an additional wash cycle, and look at the news space with a tuned-in and independent eye.

In political news, there are a few truly independent news sources that I appreciate and follow regularly. One is <snip>, founded by a Boston school teacher, <snip again>.

He does in the political realm the kind of thing that we can do in the tech realm: he points to mainstream stories, yes, but he especially finds the gems that are getting suppressed or distorted in the corporate Info War, and he also writes some fiery independent commentary.

So in our case, rather than simply reflect the news, we especially need to add and invite commentary, so that the "Independent Web Professional" can make sense out of the bombardment that comes from the daily news in the tech sector. This, rather than just parrot the spin put out by the "non-independent" tech businesses.

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So I don't think it's an anti-MSFT agenda you see, per se, but it IS an anti-spin agenda. The .net forum here is doing fine. The Browsers forum last week had lots of praise for the SP2 changes that really will help the average surfer.

Webmaster World is a community, first and foremost. The community, including Microsoft developers and penguin heads alike, is going to take us wherever we end up.

[Brett_Tabke]

To those who called us lovers a few months ago because we were the first forum on the web with a Microsoft subforum, please note the above.

>Open Source

We are first a webmaster advocacy forum. That includes helping them to look out for major software problems.

> I make my living developing software on this "evil" platform

I know it is easy to confuse us with other forums, but we are not /.

> I make my living developing software on this "evil" platform

Me too. The software that runs this site was 100% developed under Windows.

> and have no intention of switching

Ditto. (although we do have a lindows box in the corner for playing Breakout 2 on lunch hour).

> I also believe that simple implementations of
> free and very cheap software like firewalls,

Ya, but then there are the Nimda problems that hurt the entire internet and cause disruption. There is also all the spam distributed via OL exploits that clog all our mail systems and cost us time, money, and productivty to deal with.

> I have no problem with open source.

I do some of it. Look at Mozilla, here we are 6 years into it, and it is just now becoming a decent usable product? Sheeze, the last iceage wasn't this long.

Then there is the inevitable reality that Netscape is owned by AOL. By using and working on Moz, then I feel you are actually promoting the efforts of AOL. (which is not something I want too do).

There are alot of OS products out there like that. Open Office is another one. The root code is a Sun production. By using Open Office, you are actually promoting Sun to a small degree.

So, it is not all a bed of roses in the OS world. There are problems everywhere.

>actively lobbying its members to bring down the company

Nonsense. We are lobbying our members to stay informed and make their own valued decisions based on the info that is out there. We also lobby our members to look through some of the news rethoric and see the truth behind it.

For instance : MS has been saying for some time now, that they felt they had problems with IE because they were so big. That presupposes that there are problems lurking with other software. This is not necc true, and obfuscates the issue. The issue is the continuing security problems with IE. Those problems put us, ecommercie, our sites, and our livlihoods at risk. To not advocate protection for our members on this primary issue would be irresponsible.

>given the change in direction of this website,

There is no change in direction. We have always advocated for webmasters and site owners, and we will continue to do so as strongly as ever.

[martinibuster]

There are definitely some nuggets of information in the News Space every day, but there is also a gigantic pile of corporate spin, PR, and marketing that is not really news at all. It is more like what we could call an Info War.

Well said.

• Much of the news is based on Press Releases to begin with.
  
• It's important to go back, if you can, to the original press release and dig around for the telling detail that was left on the news editor's floor
• We have to dig past the spin
  
• automatically ask, "What is this news piece trying to sell me?"
  
• note who is commissioning a particular report and how they stand to gain from it
  
• Try to find the original report- there are sometimes less flattering results in there

Other thoughts:

• Nielsen Net ratings are notoriously malleable and suspect.
  
• Opinion pieces are good for use as a piņata to comment/beat on
  
• or as a touchstone for a coming trend. An opinion piece may be the first sign of how the perception of a company or a concept will be shifting in the public space in the near future.
  
• Quarterly reports can provide the raw data for news: Don't let them select the facts for you, find it with your own hands
  
• Suscribe to as many newsletters as you can handle, especially from sources that are marginally involved with the internet or search marketing

[blaze]

Post #1 has a point:

Therefore, IE is so fundamentally flawed at its origin and has cost business (imho) billions in productivity and loses due to virus propagation and exploits, that the US Govt should force a recall of the product.

This sounded like a Call To Action and not "webmaster advocacy", to me, no matter how you couched it.

Cause boy oh boy. If the government recalled IE .. can you imagine what that would do to our businesses!

Can you say: "nightmare scenario"

Certainly not a suggestion that would help webmasters.