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The reason why I would find it useful is that out of the hundreds (or thousands) of posters here, there are only a few I would consider worth reading on a regular basis. The rest just make me want to go watch the test pattern on my TV for a few hours. Being able to quickly skip to the worthwhile posters' posts would be massively time saving for me. I do something like this already (bookmarking profile pages) but it's not nearly as effective.
Which brings me to another feature that I think needs to be added. When I click on one of the "Recent Messages" on the profile page of a user, I should be taken to that specific message, NOT to the beginning of the thread where the user posted. That degrades the value enormously. Even adding just this one improvement would be valuable (i.e. even without the buddy list feature)
Getting more creative here - you could use the buddy lists to measure the popularity of posters here and have two lists - "the list of most popular posters" and "the list of hottest new posters" (measured by how many new people have added them to their buddy list in some recent time period). This would be an immense time-saver to someone new on the forum here so that they could immediately zoom in on the most popular posters here. I am well aware that popularity and skill are not strictly correlated but this improvement would have to be better than equating the posting value of every clueless newbie with some respected and successful community member. Clueless newbies have their place as well of course, but they mostly just add to the page scroll distance between two valuable posts.
I always keep an open-eye out for newbie's you just do not realise sometimes that they could be individuals that know more than myself, yourself, and alot of other members on the forums.
Personally, i go by the topic off a thread, especially if i have a lot of time - i will read as much as i can to get genned up on as much as poss, if the time is not available then i read what immediately takes my interest.
Not sure about that, The link does say recent threads, so I think it is right to send you to the start of the thread. I think if it went direct to the users comments we run the risk of missing out the entire context of the thread. It is always best to read an entire thread as oposed to simply one posters opinion.
But then , thats just my opinion.
Mack.
to measure the popularity of posters here
My focus here is reading and participating in discussions related to what I do.
Popularity contests? Are you serious or is that supposed to be a post-post-ironic comment?
;) Y
Clueless newbies have their place as well of course, but they mostly just add to the page scroll distance between two valuable posts.
A humorous characterization, to be sure, but I think not accurate at WebmasterWorld :)
Basically everyone gets to compile a list of fellow posters that they want in their personal buddy list. Every time they come to the site, they are presented with the latest posts by posters listed on their buddy lists.
Nope, not for me. Mainly I see it encouraging a cliquey atmosphere and division between the membership. Members would get trapped in their own narrow lists and new members wouldn't get the attention they currently do.
The reason why I would find it useful is that out of the hundreds (or thousands) of posters here, there are only a few I would consider worth reading on a regular basis. The rest just make me want to go watch the test pattern on my TV for a few hours. Being able to quickly skip to the worthwhile posters' posts would be massively time saving for me.
Bottler... no disprespect intended, but I've read about two posts by you now and the tone of both posts niggled a bit with me. Seems to be this classist thing going on... which is the exact opposite of what I liked about this place when I arrived.
That said, this “worthwhile poster” concept gets me - while many of us have our specialties, we are also learners in other disciplines (hell, I’m a learner in all of em); Nick_W for example, a guru in CSS, will admit himself he is just now learning in SQL and PHP. So I mark Nick a ‘worthwhile poster’ because of his CSS skill… do I get to mark him a “complete prat” on his SQL skills? (j/k Nick.. luvya really:) )
And what about some of the fabulous new arrivals that we have who have been in the industry for yonks and just found this place? They’re plainly not “clueless newbies”, but are likely to be passed over because we are so absorbed in our lists.
When I click on one of the "Recent Messages" on the profile page of a user, I should be taken to that specific message, NOT to the beginning of the thread where the user posted.
Disagree. I belong to a couple of forums that do this, and it’s completely irritating. You end up at the end of a discussion that you may or may not have read before. If you have read it before there is no guarantee that the last post you read and the last post to the thread don’t have another five new posts between them, so you end up scrolling anyways. … and frankly my memory can be a bit dodgy, so it doesn’t hurt to catch sight of the first post to the thread to refresh myself on the way down.
<add>I also believe that the present setup helps discourage thread drift. Those forums with the 'last first' method seem to be very prone to it. </add>
"the list of most popular posters" and "the list of hottest new posters" (measured by how many new people have added them to their buddy list in some recent time period). This would be an immense time-saver to someone new on the forum here so that they could immediately zoom in on the most popular posters here. I am well aware that popularity and skill are not strictly correlated but this improvement would have to be better than equating the posting value of every clueless newbie with some respected and successful community member.
…here we go round the mulberry bush. Popularity rank, karma rank, helpful post rank have all been discussed in detail and recently. I believe Brett is right in avoiding this path.
Clueless newbies have their place as well of course, but they mostly just add to the page scroll distance between two valuable posts.
I hope you don’t find this attitude limits your experience here… but I suspect it will. Some newbies come up with very thought provoking questions, and worthwhile contributions.
as you being a newbie, nobody would want to view your posts. That may not be the case,
I wonder how many people here who disagree with my suggestions/stance have actually paid WebmasterWorld for all the time and work they have put in to building this community?
Nope, not for me. Mainly I see it encouraging a cliquey atmosphere and division between the membership. Members would get trapped in their own narrow lists and new members wouldn't get the attention they currently do.
More choice is almost always better. If you want to read every single post on a topic, you will still be able to do this. Some of us don't have time.
More importantly, in my proposed scheme, there will still be opportunities for newbies to be read. If a person on my list responds to a thread by a newbie, then I will most likely want to read the thread. The second method of newbies receiving exposure is by appearing on the "most added poster in the last two weeks" list that I mentioned by making intelligent posts.
The situation you have now on this forum is that many people with highly valuable opinions don't have the time/pay-off to read through the threads. It's the newbie or up-and-coming members that do most of the reading and the posting.
Bottler... no disprespect intended, but I've read about two posts by you now and the tone of both posts niggled a bit with me. Seems to be this classist thing going on... which is the exact opposite of what I liked about this place when I arrived.
It's true that Im a natural contrarian but before you accuse me of stirring up trouble, I choose my contrarian subject areas carefully where I have strong evidence of the validity of my case :)
They’re plainly not “clueless newbies”, but are likely to be passed over because we are so absorbed in our lists.
Not true as I demonstrated above. They will post threads that people in your/my list will be active on and hence they will be read. They will also be on the "hot new talent" list.
If you have read it before there is no guarantee that the last post you read and the last post to the thread don’t have another five new posts between them, so you end up scrolling anyways
I didn't quite understand your point here. If I want to read the whole thread I can. But first I want to see whether the respected person on my list is helping some newbie with "Yes keywords in your TITLE tag DOES help" before I read the whole thread.
Popularity rank, karma rank, helpful post rank have all been discussed in detail and recently
There's nothing wrong with a bit of a trot around a mulberry bush. Usually people doing a few rounds of it implies that those people acknowledge the mulberries are worth picking but they're not sure how to pick them yet ;)
I hope you don’t find this attitude limits your experience here
Its more like a fact than an attitude. Newbies (or non-newbies who don't have much to say) just add vastly to the time it takes to explore this forum. And time means money.
I wonder how many people here who disagree with my suggestions/stance have actually paid WebmasterWorld for all the time and work they have put in to building this community?
Helloooo? ...ellooo....llooo. Echoooo.....echooo....chooo. Seems my question made a ghost town of this thread ..... Money.... it's nothing but problems, isn't it? ;)
I don't agree with this!
I wouldn't have been noticed had this been the case.Looking at webmasterworld,is like an evolution evolving on it's own.
I would best describe webmasterworld anlogous to Dr.John holland's Genetic Algorithm evolution,you create a right atmosphere and leave it to crossover and mutation, the best performing indivual will arrive.That's what I feel about webmasterowrld, it evolves because people participate and newbies join.And newbies bring along their experiences which adds to the vast pool.
That's one Reason I LOVE WW.
Aravind
[edited by: aravindgp at 11:24 am (utc) on June 24, 2003]
I would best describe webmasterworld anlogous to Dr.John holland's (noble laurate) Genetic Algorithm evolution
John Holland would be most pleased at his elevation to nobel laureate but he would also be the first to point out that he hasn't got one yet!
John is certainly the father of genetic algorithms and I myself spent quite a few years in the 80s experimenting in that area. I still have a healthy interest in the subject but more as a hobby now.
That is not enabled in the software here and I don't intend to turn it on. It doesn't promote community.
Thanks you,I did check my figures perhaps he didn't yet got ,
but he sure is father of Genetic Algorithm.
I belive if not today tommorrow the prize is coming.
It will recognize what he did.
Sure I would rate his on work Complex adpative system, nothing less than nobel prize.
Have you read "Life at the Chaos" which describes the setting up of Santafe.edu , the world's organisation at the forefront of integrating all fields into one.
The institute which blossemed with Johh holland, Professor Murray Gell-Mann (nobel prize winner..here I am right!) and Prof. W. Brian Arthur.
I am big follower of Complexity: the next century Science.
With Warm Regards
Aravind
I'm sure the long-term WebmasterWorld members would be the first to suggest that new members keep the place fresh and provide the stimulus for all of us to share knowledge freely :).
Brett, if you are taking suggestions I'd like a quote button to be able to quote from posts in the same thread :).
I wonder how many people here who disagree with my suggestions/stance have actually paid WebmasterWorld for all the time and work they have put in to building this community?
That would be supporters like me and I disagree with you. I also note that you are not a support. I believe this forum is fine the way it is. If I want to view someones recent posts then I view their profile using my custom header (see your control panel).
Chris
That is not enabled in the software here and I don't intend to turn it on. It doesn't promote community.
In which case I won't be paying for a subscription to fossick through 95% filler and 5% value and to build your community. I'm not here for the brotherhood and sisterhood. I'm here to learn efficiently. If I meet people who I can share knowledge and a laugh with, that's even better but the chance of that happenning here decreases as its growth is fueled mostly by wannabes, (or find a more politically correct or palatable name for yourself if you wish).
It's a fantastic community you've built here, but just like anybody who makes money in this business, you have to focus at least some support to that small niche (and usually unrepresentative) minority who are willing to pay. Alienating them for the sake of maximum traffic is a big financial mistake.
A lot of massively trafficked Internet forums are essentially financially worthless for that very reason.
It's a fantastic community you've built here, but just like anybody who makes money in this business, you have to focus at least some support to that small niche (and usually unrepresentative) minority who are willing to pay. Alienating them for the sake of maximum traffic is a big financial mistake.
If I meet people who I can share knowledge and a laugh with, that's even better but the chance of that happenning here decreases as its growth is fueled mostly by wannabes, (or find a more politically correct or palatable name for yourself if you wish).
Do you not get that there's a Supporters Forum?
ETA - the more relevant quote.
Alienating them for the sake of maximum traffic is a big financial mistake.
An interesting thought, but I believe incorrect. The reality is that Brett has taken the major step of pre-moderating threads related to Google, many of which are started by relative newcomers, in an attempt to better serve senior members. So he is actually risking alienating new members and new traffic to keep old members - pretty much the polar opposite of what you believe to be happening.
not here for the brotherhood and sisterhood.
That's too bad. That's part of what makes WebmasterWorld special.
So it would make a lot of sense to get directly to the messages of GoogleGuy (or Brett...).
Bottler,
minority who are willing to pay
Your not paying so you can't critise. Brett support's everyone on the forum and is nothing other than a great host.
some support to that small niche (and usually unrepresentative) minority
That's where you business sense goes down the drain. If you only support one customer, and alienate the rest you, go bust.
Alienating them for the sake of maximum traffic is a big financial mistake.
I won't pretend to know Brett as a close friend but I am begging to think you really don't understand what this site means to him. Although I'm sure Brett would love to make millions from this forum and the pending software sales, the commumity is what he loves. The community is what keeps this a friendly place and keeps visitors coming back. The community, the support and the knowledge are why I have paid.
I for one paid to support WebmasterWorld because of the knowledge that was given freely by this forum and it posters. To that I owe everyone who runs this forum and the members who have shared that knowledge with me a great debt which was only partially repaid by my knowledge and subscription.
Alienating them for the sake of maximum traffic is a big financial mistake.
Not traffic ... community spirt. This is a "mistake" that I feel Brett would contiue to make if given the opportunity. I feel so strongly that I was given the choice I would make it 100 times over.
This is a excellent place to learn and friendly place to be. You have stated that your are hear for efficient learning and you are not willing to pay, however, the mention that you wish to attend PubCon which I can only describe as a social event which a small amount of learning.
Can I please ask you why you feel this added function, which I personally object to, is needed for you to spend your money.
Chris
p.s. Community Spirit Thread [webmasterworld.com].
</REALLY PEIVED OFF RANT>
Can I please ask you why you feel this added function, which I personally object to, is needed for you to spend your money.
Look forget it bro. I've already explained. Maybe Brett would implement it just for me if I gave him the $1000 :-P
If you want to Foo around, good for you, I'm all for that. But forcing busy webmasters to read the uninformed rantings of a bunch of webmasters so that you can net that small percentage who want to Foo up on your Foo thread ... well that's not what I consider worth paying for.
PubCon which I can only describe as a social event which a small amount of learning.
Oh what a give away. Did you 'ear that? Did you 'ear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see 'im repressing me? You saw it didn't you?
I hope that's sarcasm. I'm not repressing you. You have an opinion which I respect, however, I am alittle ticked off with the choice of language that was used which, I may be wrong, but gives me the "your all high and mighty impression".
If you don't want the community then don't venture into foo and you should be fine. The Supporters Forum is a great place for straight discussions and answers. Maybe this is where you want to be.
But forcing busy webmasters to read the uninformed rantings of a bunch of webmasters
Objection Your Honor!
We are all busy and no one is forcing you to read. I would like to see you post more frequently on the board as I believe you will have a great deal of knowledge and experience to share, however, if you think we are forcing you to read then I'm afraid that's an issue you will have to resolve with yourself.
I welcome all new members to the board. Some members may be new to the industry and other may have been in it for years (yet are new to the site). Everyone starts somewhere and I like to help where I can. As for "uninformed rambling" ... I'm going to stop this post here because my blood is boiling.
A.T.O.B
Chris
[edited by: chris_f at 10:05 am (utc) on June 25, 2003]
why don't you give the forums a chance to impress you rather than condeming members, that are not up to your self imposed standards - what ever they maybe.
Once you have exhausted the site search and the supporters forum, and everyone else is saying 'your the man', then maybe criticism and leadership is a role that you can naturally take, assuming that you can afford to run/buy the forum.
If however, you want a forum with a select few > why don't you start your own, and then you can invite, whomever you may think worth bleeding for info, though i doubt that many will follow from here.
Why! - As Chris suggested Community Spirit and I add Knowledge.
i.e. has anyone in this thread agreed with your idea?
You seem to want what you would call the "facts" spoon fed to you without any background noise and effort on your part.
Sorry, but it just doesnt work like that.
The majority of people who have learned anything through this forum (and indeed any forum) have done so by digesting the information and forming their own ideas and opinions on the multitude of subject areas covered.
By reading posts made by people who are, in your opinion, clearly wrong, it is possible for you to learn from them. Even if all you leave that thread with is an improved ability to communicate diplomatically on a forum or an insight into an alternative view, then you have still gained something.
Even by responding to people who are new to the industry and are asking their first questions, you can not only help them, but you can contribute to a thread that you could very well learn from yourself.
TBH, I think your attitude sucks.
You have completely failed to see the importance that a variety of opinion and thought has for a forum such as this. Perhaps you would be more at home learning from an article based site, where you can take what you want and leave without interuption.
Scott
Oh what a give away. Did you 'ear that? Did you 'ear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see 'im repressing me? You saw it didn't you?
I hope that's sarcasm. I'm not repressing you.
It was sarcasm (quote from Monty Python methinks?).
TJ
I think you said what I was trying to say perfectly (including your one liner).
Bottler,
I have learned how to write a diplomatic answer and make a point from scott's post above. If Scott were new here and I had used your system I would have just missed out on a new skill.
Chris
Just got it. Life of Brain. :)
Very funny film.
Chris
I hope that's sarcasm. I'm not repressing you
Was a joke, comrade. Was actually a line from the movie, The Holy Grail that I'm sure a few will pick up on ;) But your comments about PubConference were enlightening....
"your all high and mighty impression".
Look some webmasters have more experience or brains or skills or knowledge or money than others. Not all webmasters are at equal stages in their development .... and that's about as politically correct a response as you're going to get from me :-P
If you don't want the community then don't venture into foo
if you think we are forcing you to read then I'm afraid that's an issue you will have to resolve with yourself
Once you have exhausted the site search and the supporters forum, and everyone else is saying 'your the man', then maybe criticism and leadership is a role that you can naturally take,
Comrade, I have no interest in being the man. I've been around this forum for years on and off but have not been satisfied with the time it takes to find things out. I stepped on here to argue my case for some improvements which I would willingly pay for. With Google in a state of flux, it's becoming more important to stay on top of changes. It's as simple as that.
has anyone in this thread agreed with your idea?
Several. But I didn't expect support from readers of this particular loyalist forum. I hope Brett finds a politically sound way to fit the ideas into his plan without upsetting the fiercely loyal minority. It makes complete sense that busy webmasters would not even THINK to visit this Community forum to put forward their opinion. They have a hard enough time digging through the Google forums to find the information they need.
Dosvidanya!
[edited by: Bottler at 10:44 am (utc) on June 25, 2003]
Bottler, I know this wasn't your very first post, but I thought I'd give you the traditional welcome anyhow: Welcome to WebmasterWorld! Take away from it what you like. Ignore the things you don't like. Post some great posts (like your very first post); help people who are looking for help even if they aren't in your "A List"; ask sensible questions. Soon you'll become a valued and respected member.
Shawn
