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Netherlands -Nederland #1 (Locked and continued)

7 search engines, 10 directories

     
3:43 pm on Oct 22, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Netherlands -Nederland
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): nl
Online population: 4,5 million (26,5%) (July 2000)
Native language(s): Dutch
Understanding of English: High
Hosts in domain: 1,1 million (Jul 2000)
Pages in language: 1,15 million (Sep 2000, all domains)
Pages in domain: 1,3 million (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Yes
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page

Known general search engines:

Altavista [nl.altavista.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes? Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: ?

Excite [nl.excite.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

G!mme [gimmens.com]
Language interface: English Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Only if no meta tags are used Keyword in 1st paragraph: Only if no meta tags are used Other: Indexes sites. Meta tags important. Small database (2% of Altavista)

Ilse [ilse.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: #1 Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No, but must be Dutch owned Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: ?Big YES Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Nothing else helps ranking. Ilse ususally indexes newly submitted urls nightly 23.00 to 03.00 local time (GMT+1)

Lycos [lycos.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Planet [planet.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Altavista index Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Vindex [vindex.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: 1,6 mill visitors/mo Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Keywords in ALT tags! Keywords in mail addresses!

Known general directories:

1ste KEUZE [1stekeuze.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: 2.000 unique visitors per day Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: 1 (editors may give more Search method: Directory first, then meta search
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: No Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Other: Keyword in keyword field helps, but cannot be repeated from title and/or description. Use plural forms, synonyms and unique keywords here. Submit a description in Dutch, mentioning availabe languages. Must have unique content interesting to Dutch

EC Rider [ecrider.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Elite [eli.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Looksmart [nl.looksmart.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Pagina [startpagina.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: >1 million page visits/day Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: No Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: No Keyword in description: No Other: ?

Search [search.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

track [track.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Vinden [vinden.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

wwwgids [wwwgids.net]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Zoek.nl [zoek.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Local people who can help with translations and advise:

This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.

The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.
Updated Dec 20, 2000 12:35 GMT

Edited by: rencke

Edited by: rencke

4:57 pm on Dec 19, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Val,
1steKeuze.nl gets about 2000 unique visitors a day.
12:00 am on Dec 20, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Rencke:
>I guess that what I had really had in mind
>was that a Dutch SEO-company might register
>a .nl address on behalf of a foreign
>client, translate and optimize their
>existing site, run it locally and submit it
>to Ilse and other local engines.

This is possible. Lots of companies would do this. But it's also a bit risky for the website owner. Legaly they would not own the domain. The company that registered it will be the owner.

> What you might try to do is to register
> the url to this discussion:
> [webmasterworld.com...]
> if they are prepared to follow links to dynamic content.

Sorry, links to dynamic content are not indexed by ilse.

12:51 pm on Dec 20, 2000 (gmt 0)

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The main entry for Netherlands has now been updated with the info supplied by NFFC, Jaap, Val and Damien.

Damien: Took your engine for a little spin last night and it passed my standard test with flying colors. Very relevant and comprehensive search reply, both for the directory and for the meta search.

Jaap and Val: You disagree on the issue of Ilse and if local language helps rankning. My test shows that it does, so I am voting with Val on this one until someone can convince me of the opposite. Local domain (.nl) does not seem to play any role though. In my test .nl and .com came up mixed on page 1. I do not understand what Val means by "Yes KW in Domain" Explain please.

12:44 am on Dec 21, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Hej Rencke,

> I do not understand what Val means by "Yes
> KW in Domain" Explain please.

I think he means "Key Words" in the domain name. This is trendy now that 64 character domain names are possible. Personally I think this is a marketing trick to sell more domain names ;)

4:34 am on Dec 21, 2000 (gmt 0)

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[planet.nl...]

I've lookt at Planet.nl. This is a Dutch internet access provider. So it is actualy not a real search engine (thers also no "add URL" link). After looking at the search results (search term: anterion) I'm shure that they use the AltaVista.Com database. The results are exacly the same.

4:42 am on Dec 21, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Sorry for that last post about planet and altavista topic. Did not see that you allready had this info in the list. Must get some sleep now....

Val

9:51 am on Dec 21, 2000 (gmt 0)

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>>KW in Domain" Explain please

It helps to have have your keyword in your domain name.
Like: [keyword.nl...]

Ilse alters her "Algo" once every year. 6 months ago a keyword in a subdomain was just enough to do the trick, but not anymore.
Now "keyword only" domains with are ranking in the top 5 for sure!

You don't need to have a .nl domain. The language of the page doesn't has to be in English! But what is most important, the domain
has to be maintained by Dutch people. The Owner must be Dutch!

Most of the time Ilse is indexing a page every night between 23:00 hour and 3:00 hour. That means its in the index in one day. The last
10 days Ilse stopped indexing without a reason. Also that happens.

The user agent form Ilse is called "Ingrid". But lately it uses just "Mozzilla".

It is very easy to cloak your pages with Ilse, because her IP numbers are tractable with "tracert ...ilse.nl" from your DOS prompt.

personally I "need" to cloak my pages with Ilse because the research work I did in order to rank High in the search results is very
valuable.

Val

9:58 am on Dec 21, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Vindex:

use your keywords in Alt tags!
Style tag
page name
URL
keyword@keyword.nl
equiv keyw. tag

2:33 pm on Dec 22, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Val! I have updated the main entry with your info on Ilse and Vindex.
Vrolijk Kerstfeest!
10:30 am on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Here are some new traffic statistics from Nielsen/NetRatings for November.

Top 10 web properties (unique audience)

1. VNU (media & phone) 2,231,857
2. KPN (phone) 1,936,598
3. MSN 1,862,405
4. Microsoft 1,376,362
5. Yahoo 1,118,957
6. Lycos 1,118,957
7. AOL 814,613
8. &Wanadoo 746,476
9. FortuneCity (portal) 707,108
10 Altavista 667,740

I have not been able to detect any SE at either of the two first and this would mean that Ilse, believed to be the #1 engine i Netherlands didn't make it to Nielsen/NetRatings top 10 list. Can anyone figure this out?

2:00 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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VNU is the owner of Ilse
...and owner of the locally very popular pagina.nl aka startpagina.nl
2:42 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Aha! Thanks Damian. Is it also possible that Vindex is somehow included in the figures for KPN? Our previous info was that they have 1,6 million unique visitors per month and that should put them high on the top 10 list.
4:03 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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As far as I know Vindex is owned by IDG,
On the address below you find their other projects, they publish several computer related offline magazines.

[idg.nl...]

Who owns IDG ? I am not sure, but I don't think it's the KPN.
I do agree it's odd Vindex is not on the list.

Strange that they probably added pagina.nl and ilse.nl together, and left microsoft and msn apart...

I'd say this list

[multiscope.nl...]

gives a better view and may be more reliable. (most popular webistes in 2000) They put KPN at position 49 ..

5:19 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Strange indeed. The figures from Multiscope you linked to look a lot more like what I would have expected and I will publish them tomorrow. I noticed this in their description of method:

Over Visiscan
Multiscope heeft bij ruim 1.400 panelleden logsoftware geďnstalleerd. Deze software logt automatisch alle bezoeken van panelleden aan sites en verzendt de gegevens naar een centrale server. Met behulp van de gelogde gegevens worden ranglijsten samengesteld op basis van de criteria ‘unieke bezoekers’ en ‘maandbereik’. Met de Visiscan panelmeting wordt continu inzicht in (de ontwikkeling van) het bereik van de belangrijkste Nederlandse websites en Internetuitgevers verkregen.

If I understand that correctly it describes exactly the method used by both Nielsen/NetRatings and MediaMetrix. From the more detailed description, it appears that the panel is not selected at random but recruited systematically to reflect the Dutch online-population. That might possibly introduce a bias in favour of more experienced users. I found nothing about home vs. office use. Nielsen/NetRatings measure home use only, so that might explain something. And from the above text, it seems that they measure Dutch sites only. That would explain why Yahoo.com and Altavista.com didn't make it to the top 50. KPN owns planet.nl, so that explains their high rank.

Any thoughts on this, Damian? KPU

5:55 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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I think neither lists are very reliable. The Multiscope list comes closer to my expectations too.
Overall I think Multiscope often presents bizar results I find hard to believe.
They claimed last month that 75% of surfers who click on a banner, return to the advertised site later..

[multiscope.nl...]

I agree they measure dutch websites only for their top 50 list.

Looking at my own referral logs over 2000,
I would not be surprised if some of the following search engines belong in this list or at least in a top search engines and directories list for the netherlands:

www.track.nl
www.freeler.nl (fed by track.nl)
www.vinden.nl (metasearch)
nl.excite.com or www.excite.nl
www.ixquick.com (metasearch)

What does KPU mean Jan?

6:10 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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KPU = typing error on my part, sorry.

Maybe we should try to bring together the stuff from Multiscope, Nielsen/NetRatings and your own logfile and see if we can come up with a reasonably complete and correct ranking list of search engines/portals and directories in Netherlands. Want to give it a try?

7:22 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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My own logs won't be of much use in establishing a ranking list I think. They are directly related to our subjective promotion efforts.

Not having enough hours in a day already, I'd rather research how to effectively reach a dutch audience.

For what it's worth, our main targeted search engines to reach a dutch audience usually include the list below.
Because of less competition (seperate db's) and possible use of familiar old techniques and algo's by the local engines, the dutch versions of the majors are interesting targets.
My traffic notes are estimates from my own experience only.

google.yahoo.com
Not many dutch keywords in the yahoo directory, so often used. good traffic

msn.nl / inktomi
Again, small dutch directory, so inktomi listings have good effects. Inktomi listings are used by several other dutch portals and search engines. good traffic.

ilse.nl
easy algo, lots of traffic,widely used by other engines ,standard included in IE next to msn.nl, excite.nl, vindex.nl,voila and surfboard.nl

vindex.nl
easy algo, medium traffic

altavista.nl good traffic
lycos.nl good traffic
excite.nl medium traffic

I'm sure they are many other interesting engines or directories to target...comments Val ?

Val

9:57 pm on Jan 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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>>the dutch versions of the majors are interesting targets.

I agree

I can't inform you of other SE that are frequetnly used.

I don't think Lycos is good for lots of trafic, why do you think so?
I always have lots of troubles getting in there index!

btw: yahoo is missing alot of the results which actualy are in the index at Google.

2:34 pm on Jan 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Here is the list from Dutch Multiscope [multiscope.nl] that Damian linked to. It shows the rank for the top 50 sites in the Netherlands for the year 2000. It is based on a panel of 1400 users, selected to reflect the Dutch online population. Only Dutch sites are listed and that is why sites like Yahoo.com, Altavista.com, Google.com cannot be found on it. Those I know to be search engines, directories or portals with SE:s onboard are in bold. If anyone spots other, please post it right here and I will update the list.

I addition to the engines below, Damian (who operates a directory) feels that the following probably shoud be on the list: track.nl, freeler.nl (fed by track.nl), vinden.nl (metasearch), nl.excite.com or www.excite.nl and ixquick.com (metasearch)

1. startpagina.nl (Multiple SE:s offered)
2. ilse.nl
3. omroep.nl
4. altavista.nl
5. msn.nl
6. planet.nl (Altavista index)
7. webwereld.nl
8. vindex.nl
9. teletekst.nos.nl
10 ns.nl
11 telegraaf.nl (wwwijzer.nl)
12 worldonline.nl (Looksmart)
13 happypoint.nl
14 aex.nl
15 lycos.nl
16 veronica.nl
17 rabobank.nl
18 nl.bol.nl
19 postbank.nl
20 anwb.nl
21 detelefoongids.com
22 etnet.nl
23 zonnet.nl (Looksmart)
24 macropolis.nl
25 tmf.nl
26 radio588.nl
27 nrc.nl
28 nu.nl
29 volkskrant.nl
30 goudengids.nl
31 pagina.nl
32 computeridee-nl
33 detelefoongids.nl
34 kaartenhuis.nl
35 abnamro.nl
36 airmiles.nl
37 wish.net (Ilse)
38 bruna.nl
39 zoek.nl
40 euroclix.nl
41 allesgratis.nl
42 soneraplaza.nl (Ilse)
43 clubs.nl
44 mistermail.nl
45 dds.nl
46 wanadoo.nl (Google)
47 intermediair.nl
48 ibazar.nl
49 kpn.com
50 hot-orange.com

One thing is clear: The Dutch like to search the web!

Edited by: rencke

3:34 pm on Jan 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

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I know the websites below all have search functions, most are isp portals that have a search engine too...

worldonline.nl
wish.net
zonnet.nl
telegraaf.nl
soneraplaza.nl
wanadoo.nl

5:37 pm on Jan 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Damian. I have updated the top list to make it a useful point of reference. Couldn't find the SE on De Telegraaf though.
9:12 pm on Jan 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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I couldn't find a link to it from their homepage either..

Their directory was moved here
[wwwijzer.nl...]

(It used to be [telegraafnet.nl...]

2:45 pm on Jan 15, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Damian. Updated the Multiscope list. Strange that they didn't show the new address themselves. Is the change very recent?
3:00 pm on Jan 15, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Judging by my logs they changed somewhere after november 20th 2000.

I did hear some rumors that this telegraaf directory was producing dissapointing financial results in it's first year ..
I guess their new strategy is to present it as a totally seperate directory now.

12:47 pm on Mar 15, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Due to the length of this thread, the discussion about search engines and directories in the Netherlands will continue here [webmasterworld.com]. If you have subscribed to e-mail notifications for Netherlands, you will have to renew them for the new discussion.
This 55 message thread spans 2 pages: 55