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joined:May 21, 2005
Interesting. How would these millions be divided up exactly. Each editor getting a bung for maintaining quality or some other service?
When someone lists their companies site and after 3 months the site has not been listed they dont even have any idea if the submission was actually even recieved because DMOZ is so arrogant they dont even send out a canned email submission acknowledgement.
But they dont want dialog..they feel no need to extend normal business courtesies.
and then they get all flustered and emotioanl when people simply ask for some basic information..did you recieve my submission?
whats the status?
Is it approved or not?
What is the issue that prevented it's acceptance?
The bottom line (as they cleary stated ..they have no intention of responding) leads us back to my original stance..
If DMOZ refuses to work with us then why are they allowed to promote DMOZ here a forum for webmasters?
They obviously didn't read the final screen in the submission process. It says on there "Thank you for your submission".
Most of those people also fail to read the "what not to do" stuff that is on the same page as the submit form too.
Several percent of companies fail to even spell their own company name correctly on the submission form; and a sizeable amount submit their URL with a typo that renders the URL unusable.
Hello? Did you even read my post, just above [#184]? I already answered that point earlier today. Why are you asking it again?
That "service" was tried for several years at some other forum, and it did not work.
joined:May 21, 2005
No, I think he understands how ODP works. Dmoz may not be commercial (taking submit fees), but there IS a commercial reason behind it. I run a directory, and it's not currently charging, but it's mine so I can justify why I'm doing it.
But editors don't own Dmoz, yet they maintain a committment. So we are trying to work out what the payoff will be for all this sacrifice. It's not money, and a single listing can't repay the hours involved. Let's see the average Males lives for 76 years - how many of those years will these guys waste on dmoz.
I understand how groups operate, and belonging to something is natural, but mostly a reward is attached to that in return for the effort. But dmoz won't pay editors - so I am wondering why they waste their time and lives serving someone who doesn't actually give a damn whether you were to die tommorrow or in the next 4 minutes lol. Do you guys really think that dmoz gives a rats behind about you, when it's so easy to replace editors. You think dmoz will someday reward you for this - I seriously doubt it.
Is it my imagination or did I read that Google may put in an offer for AOL? Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when Google does something, they normally succeed don't they - especially when buy outs are involved.
That would mean they would own dmoz. How much will the editors get paid for their effort.
The posters at WebmasterWorld don't own it, yet they retain some sort of commitment to it. Why? That's your question back at you, in the context of your volunteer critic role on WebmasterWorld...
So we are trying to work out what the payoff will be for all this sacrifice.
Besides the general satisfaction of a hobby, what I get from editing at the ODP is the opportunity to put together a set of internet references for myself and to share. I started editing in zoos, because when I travel with my kids I want to know what zoos there are to visit. I continued editing in Maryland because I wanted to learn more about the place I had just moved to. Most recently, I've been editing in Space Missions so that there is a comprehensive set of references for some classes I'm teaching. I edit for the same reason other editors do - the topic interests me.
As for why I read and occasionally post at WebmasterWorld - pure amusement. :-)
Don't be silly. No one has to put a link to your site from their website. If you seriously think that's illegal, you belong in the same category with the lady who sent me email last week claiming that she had copyrighted the colors brown, yellow, green, blue, red, black, white, and purple and everyone owed her six years of back pay for using them. (Where do these people come from, really?)
You're right; my passion is not serving webmasters. My passion is not serving other people at all. Since your passion isn't serving me, I don't know why I should feel guilty about that. If I was going to spend my free time serving anyone it would be displaced hurricane victims or something, not webmasters who want help promoting their online businesses.
It's just another website. I'm currently having fun adding a neat directory of lots and lots of authors to it, because it's something I feel like contributing, because the other editors appreciate it, and because the people who actually use the site appreciate it. That's really all I care about.
Use your common sense for a moment: even assuming an ODP listing was as financially valuable as you think it is (I'm of the belief it's financially nearly worthless), why would an editor who just wanted to list his site and leave ever bother going to WebmasterWorld and defending it? He'd just do it, pocket the profits, and never waste time thinking about it again. Those of us who hang around forums like this one talking about the ODP are by definition those who care about it for its own sake. And so there's really no point arguing with us that we ought to be doing something else with our free time. We can do whatever we want to with our free time.
The only question remaining is whether the ODP is of any value TO YOU. Obviously it's of value to SOME people. I like it as a search tool, and so do plenty of other academics and librarians and hobbyists. Sites that appeal to that sort of person do get traffic from being listed there. So it's certainly not useless across the board. But it may well be useless for YOUR PURPOSES. That doesn't hurt my feelings. No one site can be everything to all people.
This isn't really an issue limited to DMOZ. The educational site I work on is constantly getting email from schoolkids complaining that the site has no information on some topic completely different than the one the site is about and their report is due tomorrow morning and therefore we suck. No; therefore THEY are incompetent at finding a website that matches their needs, and are #*$!ing at strangers to do that work for them. Their F will belong to them, not to me just for not having written the site they wished I'd written so they wouldn't have to do any work of their own.
joined:May 21, 2005
If you have a hobby, what payoff do you get for the sacrifice of time you put into it?
No, working for dmoz isn't a hobby - it's an activity.
But it's still a form of work, compared to eg basketball or designing websites or pottery etc.
what I get from editing at the ODP is the opportunity to put together a set of internet references for myself
Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere, a solid reason why.
So it's actually for yourself then - oh well that's different then, still unprofitable but at least you are doing it for some reason and have quoted that reason. But even so, instead of using dmoz to make this resource - how come you don't get your own resource set up, at least then you can call it your own. And not controlled by dmoz.
Sounds like you would enjoy making some sort of Space website..... Might be interesting and profitable even.
But why do you owe dmoz any favours that you have to do this for them. What's dmoz ever given you - and this is my entire point about dmoz and the editors.
In fact many thousands of people (people who are not ODP editors) have done just that, put their useful link lists online for all, and they often make an efficient resource for finding yet more listable sites for adding to the ODP.
> what's dmoz ever given you
That's been answered, many times, including in this thread.
Volunteers at dmoz do what they do because they choose to do it, it's just that simple.
Not liking the answer doesn't make the answer wrong. :)
For myself, I'm doing something that I believe to be important. If the absence of monetary gain, or other tangible reward, is a 'waste of time' well, hey, even if I were to agree I am wasting my time, it is my time to waste.
I currently edit a (limited) range of non-commerce areas. The submitted suggestions are over 99% current. However, there are quite literally thousands of eligible sites which have never been suggested, and likely never will be suggested, in that area. Yet, a more comprehensive directory in the particular area interests me. It is an area no one is ever likely to build as a separate niche directory, including myself.
Ergo, as a great writer once penned, I have miles to go before I sleep. :)
But why do you owe dmoz any favours that you have to do this for them. What's dmoz ever given you - and this is my entire point about dmoz and the editors.The point is that it isn't about what favours we owe the directory or what the directory has done for us. You seem to be seeing "Dmoz" as this nebulous "Them" (presumably AOL bigwigs) separate from the editors when, in reality, "Dmoz" *is* the editors. And most of us get pleasure out the doing, not out of what we think the doing might net us personally. Some of us spend as much time or more editing as we do at our Real Life jobs simply because we enjoy doing it.
joined:May 21, 2005
That's a pretty good arguement there, so I'll answer it.
How much are you going to get paid for your 247 posts you have made here?
About the same as you - which is nothing! So if you are implying that I'm sad, then we are both equal in that respect. Except I'm not working for webmasterworld, I'm not a Mod, nor part of it's admin team.
You have volunteered and accepted a duty, and signed a very informal contract with dmoz when you signed up. So although you could quit today, you choose to devote however many hours and serve an entity that will give you no thanks, no recognition, no money and constant hassle on forums. And you find this enjoyable, fun or a hobby. Some people would call that abnormal, and since you haven't given the exact reason you do this, people will understandably draw their own conclusions.
You're not here for the enjoyment of it. There must be a hidden reason - some sekrit payoff.
Sometimes it's enjoyable - so you're wrong on that score I'm afraid. The hidden reason as you call it, has a purpose which could benefit Webmasterworld greatly, and also aid webmasters in the process, so I could be a very powerful asset indeed if I choose.
I'm also here for advice, tips and to help when I can, but I won't devote the kind of time you guys do - as I have a life and a business to set up.
I don't think WebmasterWorld will be making money out of my words alone - so let's not be silly.
The posters at WebmasterWorld don't own it, yet they retain some sort of commitment to it. Why? That's your question back at you, in the context of your volunteer critic role on WebmasterWorld
People post here looking for answers to problems, some do it for entertainment and others for the ego boost.
Maybe editors get an ego boost from being an editor. There must be some sort of status attached that I'm unaware of.
All it really boils down to is I have a hobby that makes me no money and is one you would personally find terribly boring. You wonder why I'd bother, but the answer is just that the world is large, the Internet is large, and everyone enjoys different things.
My mother has never understood why I'd enjoy playing computer games. "But you're just SITTING there!" she'd say, when I was a kid. I still like playing computer games, though. And I don't really understand why she spends so much time watching boring old movies. I don't really care for watching TV at all, really. It's so non-interactive. But I accept that she finds it relaxing, even though I wouldn't. *shrug* Takes all kinds.
How did this thread turn into "Interviews With ODP Editors: How Did You Guys Get So Boring Anyway?" ;-)