Forum Moderators: open
[dmoz.org.il...]
have a link to the editors own site - down at the bottom of every page there is a geek with Hebrew text. That link takes you to the editors own site
Go through the whole of dmoz.org.il and the editor has this link.
Are we to be treated to editors links everywhere. It works wonders in getting the editors site indexed highly by Google
note to mods, this is generic dmoz abuse, rather than particular abuse, but you may disagree :)
Anyone, editor or not, can do the same thing: take the ODP data, display it on his own site (with required attribution), and add his own links to it (anywhere on the page). So it is certainly NOT taking any advantage of editing privileges.
Nor (if it includes the required attribution) is it taking illegal advantage of the license: modification of the ODP data is specifically allowed.
So, if it's not abusing editing privileges, and not abusing licensee privileges, who's being abused? That's a major part of what the "Open" in "ODP" means.
What _I_ consider outrageously abusive is the, um, graphically explicit sites who copy the ODP data, and host the ODP data with their own graphic displays. I'd really rather NOT have that kind of links to my home page.
But the license allows it: "open" means I can't forbid someone else to use the content I generated. In other words, by definition it's not "abuse".
Editors often pick up the dmoz domains at various other TLDs, and use them to redirect to local language categories, or mirror the content on local servers. This is, in all cases I've heard of, an individual voluntary initiative -- no surprise, huh, that's the ODP way. And IIRC, staff heard about some cases, and didn't protest.
My guess is, if you're faithfully representing dmoz.org content on your server and scrupulously abiding by the attribution requirements, at the very worst, AOL has much bigger miscreants to fry.
dmoz.org has a way different attitude toward content redistribution than most sites, sort of like the Gideons Bible Society versus the Church of Scientology.
As hutcheson has explained, this person is repackaging dmoz data, which is OK under the Open Directory License.
It sure is confusing that AOL does not control domain names like that one.
The domain name is registered to an individual named Daniel Nuriyev, with an address in Jerusalem.
A quick search shows that he is a dmoz editor. Further it says on RZ that the site is run by Dmoz editors. I think readers can be pretty sure that it is run by Dmoz editors.
I was trying to establish what and where the line was drawn by Dmoz itself, on what editors could do.
If Dmoz editors could arbitrarily add links wholesale to their own sites, then it would be worthy of debate.
Whatever Dmoz editors do on their own sites is their own business, and certainly none of mine
However when you get a site like this one that IMO is a "passing off" as the official Dmoz site then (says he naively) is it not worth Dmoz themselves trying to police it in some way
For example this site [dmoz.ch...] appears to have some "official" dmoz backing. Yet you say dmoz.org.il does not.
How is the poor punter meant to know who they are dealing with?
Some dmoz.* sites were created by editors on an unofficial basis as national or language gateways to dmoz.org, since it may not be obvious from the home page that the ODP is very much a multilingual project. Other dmoz.* sites are owned by speculators and opportunists, including among them some individuals who have been expelled from the project. However, volunteer editors do not have any legal standing to force a third party to relinquish the domains, since AOL has been most lackadaisical about trademark control here.
The "poor punter" can simply ignore everything except dmoz.org. Any submission form for any category in any language on any official ODP site will point directly to dmoz.org/cgi-bin/add.cgi?where=category path.
Confusing, eh ;)
I am the dmoz editor of World/Hebrew.
( [dmoz.org...] )
As a service to the Hebrew speaking community, Michael from 2find, Daniel Nuriyev and myslef maintain a mirror site for the Hebrew category under www.dmoz.org.il .
This mirror was launched more than 2 years ago, and had the 2find link since than.
( [web.archive.org...] )
The main reason for this mirror was problems displaying Hebrew correctly on dmoz.org main site. (BTW - Since than Hebrew is displayed much better, using unicode, on dmoz.org)
I would like to thank again Michael from 2find for hosting this mirror site.
As told above, ofcourse the site is not affiliated with dmoz.org AOL or anyone else.
Any questions?
nonZero
<Sorry, no email sigs.
See Terms of Service [webmasterworld.com]> #13
[edited by: tedster at 9:05 pm (utc) on Feb. 22, 2005]
I started this thread to try to see what was an official and what was not an official DMOZ site.
It is fairly clear from discussion around the web that 2find have been using links off that DMOZ mirror site to further their progress in one those mindless “N*gritude Ultram*rine” and “Seraphim Proudleduck” type competitions. This time on the theme of "Latur Motor"
I was surprised the DMOZ would allow editors to add such links to an official site. Then I discover here that it is not an "official" site but is nevertheless run by, would you believe it, the same guys that edit the "official" site
I would have expected DMOZ editors to be more "impartial" than that. If I ran an Israeli web site, I would be somewhat sceptical about getting listing for my sites on the official Isreali DMOZ site, as it is being reviewed by the guys that are promoting their own business on anothe site that looks pretty much like the real thing.
Whilst I appreciate that DMOZ metas cannot control AOL's lack of URL policing, I suppose I would have expected DMOZ editors to police their own editors.
So my question to you would be "How can DMOZ Isreal editors be seen to be editing fairly, and not penalising submissions from other sites, when this sort of thing emerges"
Why is it not abuse? Should DMOZ editors not be like Caesars Wife, as pure as the driven snow. Or is that too much to expect from the outside?
If, on the other hand, they are faithful in those little things; if they are careful to make their identities known (so that any vicious act of theirs can redound on their own reputations), then, well, _I'm_ going to think that's pretty strong evidence of integrity.
And I'm going to chalk your theory up as another example of people being focussed on things that didn't happen.
"Reality. It's not just an idea. It's all there is."
Anything else is a copy of the RDF dump, published partially or in full, provided as is or further edited, does or does not include advertising, is updated regularly or not, and is outside the scope of work at dmoz.org itself.
The editors add sites to a database. The database is updated and displayed at http://dmoz.org/ and is also produced in an about-weekly RDF dump (http://rdf.dmoz.org/rdf/). Anyone, that means anyone at all, can download the RDF dump, extract the data and display it on their own site, in part or in full. They can add to the content, they can modify the content, they can choose to update it or leave it static for the next decade.
They have to abide by a licence to use the data. That licence says that they must provide attribution that that data comes from the ODP. They must also link all "submit" and "update" links back to the correct function and category at the dmoz.org site.
That's it. Anything further is looking for a conspiracy that does not interest the editor's (nor Staff, nor AOL, I assume (as no action has ever been taken on it)).
As written in the last post, anyone can add create his own dmoz copy and add any of his own stuff, as long he keeps the rules on dmoz license as said above.
Two more things:
First, I don't have any business relationship with 2find. Moreover dmoz.org.il is VERY clean. For example compare it with ANY other Hebrew directory, i.e. tapuz, walla, nana, etc. Giving one small sponsor link at the bottom of each page to the web-host is really really *not* giving any push to any business. I can also say that I know I can try to promote many things throgh dmoz.org.il, but I want to keep it clean and simple as it is now. This is my way.
Secondly, I would be more than happy to have more Hebrew dmoz mirrors on the web. If you want me to help/advice you how to set up your own mirror, drop me a msg and I'll call you.
Good luck (in Latur motor? are you participating?),
nonZero
Happily I neither speak Hebrew, nor do I have anything to do with your competition :)
