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If I use the search form to look for "blue widgets", for example, it'll show me Category results first (1-5 out of XXX results), followed by Site results (1-20 out of XXXX results.)
Do they have an algo that determines those 1-20 Site results, as well as 21-40, etc.?
I'm seeing some Site results that have the search term in the URL, some only have it in the site name, and some only have my search term in the description. There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it, and sites 1-20 are not ordered in any relation to the Category results shown above.
I've found some related discussions here on WebmasterWorld going back 8-10 months, but none specifically address any algo that DMOZ might use to determine those Site Results.
That is, it's always the same order (unless matching sites have been added or removed) but there's no discernable pattern to that order.
The search engine code is public domain, so if you really MUST know, download it and do the comp-sci.
And the usual caveat: hardly any real users search there, so it wouldn't be worth optimizing for even if you could ... which you can't.
The order of dmoz.org search results is deterministic but indeterminable.
:) Nicely said.
The search engine code is public domain, so if you really MUST know, download it and do the comp-sci.
Comp sci is not quite my cup o' tea, but thanks for the idea.
And the usual caveat: hardly any real users search there
I saw that stated in some of the older, semi-related threads, but I saw no evidence to back it up. Is there any?
When I use ODP as a searcher, I never browse through the category listings because the information (or sites) I'm looking for could be listed in any one of several categories. The tunneling down would take far too long. So I always use the search form, and then go quickly from there through the category results it returns.
Are there any stats about use the search on ODP? Maybe I'm alone...
evidenceOnly ODP staff has ever seen access logs for any dmoz.org pages or scripts, so there is no evidence per se. But you must agree that ODP and dmoz.org are not household names, and it is not promoted as a consumer product. No sitcom plots are going to feature dmozzing a blind date any time soon. ODP grows tomatoes; although a few people do stop by the vegetable stand driving through the countryside, most people get those tomatoes via the produce aisle of Kroger, or as Campbell's tomato soup and Chi-Chi's salsa.
When I use ODP as a searcher, I never browse through the category listings because the information (or sites) I'm looking for could be listed in any one of several categories.It is true that a taxonomy provides only a limited number of dimensions for organizing content. But as the directory grows and refines its ontologies, its theme-based as opposed to word-based organization becomes more useful to more people (YMMV), because categories are designated for ever-increasingly granular subjects.
Oh, _I_ use ODP search, occasionally, as a surfer. And for a highly focused informational query, there are times when it gives me the best results on the net. YMMV, and for a vague query its ranking is worthless.
Several people have posted analyses of their referer logs in this forum in the past, and dmoz.org (search AND surf combined) was always down in the 1% range. This is consistent with the public data about the major sites -- dmoz.org is way down the scale, and some simple calculations will show that most of the dmoz.org accesses are related to editing tasks.
I don't imagine that even many ODP editors rely on ODP's search function to locate a site from which to purchase something--they'd either browse an appropriate ODP shopping category or use a more sophisticated search engine (as I do with Google). I think the people who have told you that ODP search is really not worth worrying about your site coming up well on are correct. Search isn't really the point of the ODP, and I don't think many people use it as a search engine.
The reason I asked this question in the first place is this: We tell our clients it helps to get added to the ODP directory, and we're experts so let us do the research to determine which category would be best and let us write the perfect site description, etc., etc.
And it occurred to me that one of these days a client is gonna use that search function to find their site, wonder why it doesn't show in the first 20 listings, and how come their competitor does?
Sure, I can sit here all day and tell them not to worry about it, nobody uses it, etc., but they'll want some actual evidence. But if none exists (outside of our own logs) ... c'est la vie.
I really do appreciate the excellent responses you guys/gals have given. Thank you.
dmoz.org is not a retail site. This is obvious, but (in forums like these) too often forgotten. We do NO SEO. We don't mind if people use it, but we really really don't care if they don't. This is such an alien attitude in forums like these that it may seem incredible.
-- It doesn't do what you want? We're not surprised. So what? It doesn't do all that WE want either. But we still drive lots of nails with it. And since we're here to drive nails, that's all that matters. [But if you want to improve the tool, we'll be grateful! It's just not that high on our list of concerns.]
-- It doesn't have flash gratuitous frantically animated graphics, ad popups, exitfuel farts, or all the other features that are deemed to be necessary adjuncts to the well-developed website. We like it that way. Perhaps the beer&wine store owner wonders why the Quaker meeting room has such a small sign outside, and not even neon at that. "We thank thee for thy concern, but we are content."
-- You want to copy our content and steal our visitors? Go right ahead -- here, we'll help.
-- You want to use our nails as raw material to make your own threaded fasteners, and sell your own threaded-fastener driver? Go ahead. If you use enough of them, talk to us about free direct shipping. And if they work well enough, we may even give some free advertising.
