Question about DMOZ, subdomains...

...and google.

[gutabo]

Hi, I have a Q, this time about Google, subdomains and DMOZ. Our boss wants to strip our 1400+ pages site into something like a "family" of smaller sites(with different orientations, kinda), to get more external links. Thing is, we can use subdomains and save some cash on domain and hosting services, but...
-Does google counts subdomain pages/links as external or internal links?
-Can you register a subdomain to DMOZ in a different category than your domain?

Any other way to increase external links?

Thanks in advance!

[motsa]

You are unlikely to get each subsection (whether as subdomains or actual domains) listed in separate sections of Dmoz but it depends on the site in question and how different each subsection is from the others, e.g. if you had an ecclectic site covering modern literature, dog training, the XFiles, and miniature cars, you'd likely qualify to have each section listed separately; on the other hand, a business who decides to separate out their services into subsections isn't likely to get listings for each subsection.

[John_Caius]

Deeplinked content can be a file under the main domain, a subdomain or even a separate domain. So www.widgets.com could have its blue widget page at any of:

www.widgets.com/blue
blue.widgets.com
www.bluewidgets.com

If the content is created, run by and linked to from www.widgets.com then it's considered as a deeplink regardless of precisely how the webmaster chooses to present the URL.

So the answer to whether dmoz would list the extra content is covered entirely by the dmoz.org/guidelines section on deeplinking, which is as motsa eloquently described. Deeplinking is far more prevalent for broad informational sites, rare for small commercial sites or large sites covering one topic. Your phrase "different orientations, kinda" suggests that you probably realise yourself that the content isn't suitable to be linked in several different sections.

For a more specific answer, you can go to www.resource-zone.com and ask the ODP editors there to advise you on whether it would be worth your while submitting deeplinks. You can give your URL there so it'll be a more definitive answer. That might save you several months of nailbiting.

Hope that helps. :)

[cornwall]

>>www.widgets.com/blue
>>blue.widgets.com
>>www.bluewidgets.com

In my experience you are far more likely to get a DMOZ link to your "blue widget" information from a separate URL (ie www.bluewidgets.com ) than from a sub domain or directory of widgets.com

The DMOZ editor can check against other submissions or listings from widgets.com. It is unlikely that a different URL to a different category will be picked up as an undercover deeplink (unless you have widgets.com plastered all over the bluewidget site)

One of the strange things about deeplinking in DMOZ is that editors are wary of adding deeplinks (frightened about getting kicked by metas maybe)but do not have the time or inclination to do the more comprehensive checks required to nail down the parentage/relationship between two apparently unrelated sites like widgets.com and bluewidgets.com

Having said all that, I personally would not think it worth the bother of further sites just to get another DMOZ link on the Google algo

[John_Caius]

Well there's a core principle at dmoz to list sites not pages. In the parts of the directory relevant to most webmasters here (commercial sites), deeplinks are relatively rare. In other parts of the directory (informational sites), deeplinks can be quite common, but they're mainly from sites that aren't much into SEO.

In general I think editors think extra hard when reviewing either a deeplink or www.my-really-spammy-domain-name.com . A submission of www.honestbobscafe.com is much less likely to be a fraternal mirror, deeplink or affiliate site. There are usually pretty obvious on-page factors that give away the separate domain deeplinks, one of which is often the keyword URL.

[RFranzen]

Gutabo,

Factor your site however best it will help your users. There is an important feature overlooked by many companies. When they break down larger sites, they fail to offer a master cross-reference point which makes it easy to find all your other sites. Assuming your customers like your product/service, the xfref would allow them to find other stuff you make/sell.

It will also allow an ODP editor to list a site from which your users can find green widgets, red widgets, and quiet kersplunkets. If you don't offer a cross-reference point, the ODP may end up listing only the green widgets. It's kind of your own fault if you don't allow the user to internavigate once he gets there.

Concerning whether an editor being able to tell widgets.com and bluewidgets.com are the same company -- yes, new editors might miss it. More experienced editors know to externally search for phone numbers, addresses, common phrases, etc. They may also look at framed URL's, form POST actions, domain registrants, and countless other details.

Sometimes the editor doesn't have to do anything. If he logs in and finds five new submissions made within a half hour from the same TCP/IP address, well, we call that a "hint". :)

Trying to trick an ODP editor is counterproductive. Yes, you might fool us. More importantly to your business, you will also limit what potential customers can find once they get to one of your "sites".

-- Rich

[cornwall]

>>They may also look at framed URL's, form POST actions, domain registrants, and countless other details.

Not many ODP editors will take the trouble to go through that list, if there is nothing in the submission to raise red flags.

To use the earlier example given

>>A submission of www.honestbobscafe.com is much less likely to be a fraternal mirror, deeplink or affiliate site

True. Now if you produce a second site as www.honestbobsdonuts.com then you are much more likely to get two ODP category listings (under cafes and donuts), than if you try to get the donuts page of honestbobscafe deep linked.

[Dynamoo]

There are major resources that *do* use the subdomain model for their own convenience, e.g. blue.widgets.com. These are treated as deeplinks like any other, but for some sites the quality and range of information is enough to give them hundreds of links.

If you have a high quality site with diverse topics, then deeplinks should NOT be an issue. It may make sense for the visitors to split into subdomains and minisites.

I'm not accusing you of trying to spam, but most multidomain spammers get picked up very quickly indeed (e.g. syracuse-widget-mall.com, toledo-widget-mall.com etc). Sometimes businesses spend thousands of dollars on individual domains and get nothing in return, except a bunch of annoyed editors who may just drop your site altogether (especially if they have just had to manually flag several hundred domains as deeplinks).

[cornwall]

>>If you have a high quality site with diverse topics, then deeplinks should NOT be an issue. It may make sense for the visitors to split into subdomains and minisites.

Not sure if you are suggesting I am spamming DMOZ or not ;)

I have a number of sites with 20 or 30 deeplinks in DMOZ, and I am comfortable that that, in my case is the best way of approaching the question.

However I stand by my suggestion that it is easier to get multiple DMOZ listings with different sites than with deep links to the one site.

In my case, where I have state by state sub-directories, they are listed in around half the DMOZ state categories (but not the other half). I ask myself the question why not the other half - no difference in quality of content. It has to be because a state editor has decided not to deep link. I remain convinced that I would have more listing for these states if I had separate domains.

However in my case, I am not interested in going to the trouble of setting up new domains for the sake of a few more DMOZ listings