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MSN listings but not from Ink or LS?

where do these come from?



10:45 pm on May 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

As of late I've been looking into MSN more and more in an effort to transition out of Google. To date I've always built sites for MSN by either coding for Inktomi (usually through PositionTech) or through LookSmart. However, as of later I've been seeing a lot of top directory feeds have been coming from somplace other than LookSmart. Did I fall asleep for a week and a partnership changed?

If anyone can point me to where these sites are coming from it would be much appreciated.


jeremy goodrich

5:17 am on May 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

MSN sells the very top spots in house.

After that are the Overture, then the Looksmart, then the Inktomi listings.


7:31 am on May 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

jeremy goodrich is 100% correct. The MSN in-house listings are a tiny percentage of those that ever appear. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over them!

If you want to be successful at MSN you need to look at pure Ink results....in depth....lots of content will give you good Ink positions.

Don't worry about the terms that are MSN sponsored, Overture Bidders, Looksmart subscribers, look at the terms no one else has considered.....of which there are millions!


12:14 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I don't think I was clear. The listing that I'm referring to ARE NOT payed placement and are being listed as "Directory Listings" but are not coming from LookSmart.

I'm familiar with distinguishing if a site is coming from Overture, INK, or LS. The sites I'm referring to are not coming from any of the three and are not paid positions.

In some cases I was seeing some similarities between Google and these types of sites but with the latest Google update it's not making any sense to me.

jeremy goodrich

2:04 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

If they are NOT paid - I have no idea, and I have never seen this on MSN. If you're right - it's big news, that they are including something else.

However, if they are listed at the top - and not directory listings, and not Overture, - the odds are, those MSN sold in house.

Frequently for 'lucractive' keywords - MSN will go direct, to obtain a bigger % of the margin on the keyword(s) that they are selling.

Would be good if somebody else could figure out what you are referring to - unless it is MSN in house stuff.


10:23 pm on May 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I still have Web Directory Sites listings from Looksmart before it was pay for inclusion/ppc. These listing do not show up as Looksmart listing when you mouse over the link.
So part of what you are seeing is grandfathered listings.


7:26 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I'm also seing the strange listings from the Web Directory portion of the MSN results.

As far as I can tell, MSN has the same inhouse advertisers and hand picked sites up in Featured Sites portion, Overture still holds onto Sponsored Sites, and Inktomi continues to backfill in the Web Pages portion.

In my memory the Web Directory Sites used to be fairly straight-forward Looksmart, with MSN tweaking and finessing it more and more over time, but just very slightly. Now I'm getting very different results from this portion, with entries that don't show up from either Looksmart or Zeal under the same search.

For wild speculation's sake, I think I'm seeing some stemming. Where it looks like these results aren't in the Zeal and Looksmart directories, they are, but just under very similar terms. Still checking.

For some background to fuel other guesses, this article reports on Looksmart expanding the contract with MSN on Sept 18 to last until Dec '03:

jeremy goodrich

11:57 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

If you click 'about' next to the Web Directory listings, the MSN info still says they come from the MSN directory.

From that page:

Web Directory results contain Web sites within the MSN Web Directory that best match your search words.


Within Web Directory results, there may also be links where the Web site owners have paid for the expedited review of their site or for clicks to their site. These sites are ranked using the normal algorithm applied to all links within each section, with no change in rank due to payment.

So until somebody can point to some proof that another company is mixed in there, it simply must be LS or Zeal stuff.

I haven't checked myself to see if MSN uses stemming or not, but seriously - if you are selling something it's easy enough to pay one of many different companies to get at or near the top of MSN.

For hobby type sites, Zeal will list them for free (given time & patience etc).

That link to the MSN / LS deal does NOT include the info that MSN reserves the right to 'reallocate' search volume to LS at any given time - so I'm not saying there isn't something going on - just that we have no proof - yet.


2:19 pm on May 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I listed a non-profit site on Zeal 3 months ago and immediately started getting about 130 hits per day from MSN and it's still going on. That was the first and only time that's happened however. I wish I could repeat it as I have other non-profits listed on Zeal with minimal hits.



8:26 pm on Jun 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

On a somewhat related tangent, I have a page that is 1) relatively new and 2) has not been submitted to INK that is showing up in webpage results ranked very well over others that are listed in Ink.

The funny thing is that this page is listed well in Google. Well, off and on with Googles recent wackiness.Hmmm.


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