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What characteristics make a good up and coming SE? What should we be watching for?
Some possibilities include:
Gigablast [gigablast.com] - Pretty interesting for a 1 person show.
WiseNut [wisenut.com] - Did they ever update their database after getting out of beta?
Vivisimo [vivisimo.com] - Interesting concept, too cluttered for my taste, but perhaps as you get used to it, it gets better?
Yuntis [yuntis.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu] - Very interesting, loads of bells and whistles, university project is definitely one to watch.
Alexa [alexa.com] - Owned by Amazon, can you say big brother? (sorry). But - they got news & reviews on every site of the web...well, at least - they say they do :)
KarTOO [kartoo.com] - Neat flash interface, company says it's a product demo - kind of like Alltheweb is a product demo for Fast Search & Transfer. Another novel concept, but will it fly with the public?
Search Hippo [searchhippo.com] - Another 1 person show, they've got some interesting ( free ) keyword data, but nobody seems to be using it...will that change? It's been around for a while.
OpenFind [openfind.com] Forgot this one first time around, very large database, but the algo needs some refinement - as well as a refresh or two. In the same league as WiseNut, imho.
[edited by: jeremy_goodrich at 10:51 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2003]
joined:July 19, 2001
Personally I like the Mirago local search feature.
But if forced to choose out of the globals I would say that Yuntis still looks very promising.
Contender for what?
The two I use for specific purposes:
1. Vivisimo - great for finding sites to "seed" a specialized directory with. I start with Vivisimo for a broad overview of the subject. A good meta like V. does that very well.
2. Searchhippo - I use it for backfill (secondary) results on one of my specialized directories and it works very well via XML feed. Free.
I also get some traffic from Searchhippo on several sites. No great floods of traffic but enough to be on the radar.
Seems that there ought to be something out there that people will get excited about.
Perhaps only search engine geeks like us follow these things today, but in the future - one of these could be Google. You never know...
Gigablast has balls (for want of a better description) and that near instant indexing is a fantastic feature.
Any more for any more?
There's some goofiness with its results, but I like many of the ideas here. I like the font colors of the layouts, I like the sort options, I like the daily search options, etc.
[edited by: RBuzz at 11:10 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2003]
Are there any other 'unkown' but 'could be good' engines with novel interfaces, unusual ( and good ) results, or major university projects we are missing?
Yes, Teoma is pretty cool - perhaps that's why it gets traffic & free press (mentioned recently on CNN, i think).
For more on Teoma, you might consider visiting the WembasterWorld Ask Jeeves & Teoma Search Engines forum [webmasterworld.com]
I'm trying to 'stir the pot' so to speak, for some of the smaller / lesser known, but could still be cool search engines.
Most everything else is a directory. The sad truth is that all the ones not mentioned are probably dead or dying. The bar and the knowledge base required for a general search engine is so high now that the small fry do not stand a chance. Not in general search.
It is specialize or die.
I would opt for [szukacz.pl...]
Although I do not understand it's Polish interface. I like the idea of a local search engine in a country that has not been associated with advanced technology. And actually Szukacz has an interesting international database. For some search terms I on page 1 found high quality websites, that I did not know.
So Vivisimo and Kartoo, while both meta engines, offer something useful. I haven't really found myself using Kartoo much though.
Both Openfind and Searchhippo seem to lack in relevance at the moment.
I don't use Alexa to search, but I sometimes use it for its various statistics (traffic, related pages, etc).
Gigablast is good, but it just doesn't offer anything that I don't get elsewhere. Actually, I just went there now and the site seems to be down?
Yunits: very promising. I was reading through all the advanced query possibilities a few days ago, it was a booleaner's dream :-). As much as I like the advanced capabilities, hardly anyone (%) even uses Google's advanced search. The masses will not be learning to use INCL, sasrefs:, and NEAR m, n anytime soon. Yuntis is of course, still in the research stage, and it will need an index much larger than 4 million to compete with even Teoma.
>>Does anyone use Query Server
About a year ago I was getting some traffic from QS. That has tapered off now.
I do think you are on to something very good and I hope you will keep developing it. I think I would be more inclined to use it if the site "felt" like a SE site. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the encouragement.
My trouble is that I'm torn between two masters - the users who (like you) want the site to be more like a normal SE, and Open Text who wants the site to both look like the corporate Open Text site and act as a marketing tool for the Query Server product. Naturally, the people who pay my salary win! However, I will pass your suggestion on, in the hope that things will change in the future.
Smarter - ten results for 'stuff'
wotbot -> doesn't even have an about page
And Yuup? That's not an actual search engine.
:) We try to discuss things that are new & different, and could be something....
eg, if their db doesn't have a few million urls ( like the ODP as a seed, for example) then it's not really a search engine.
Every major search engine uses the ODP - without exception. It's an incredible corpus of data, and a perfect 'seed' for extrapolating a basic link structure. :)
But thanks for providing a few examples of the types of engines that we don't cover here.
Cheers, and welcome to WebmasterWorld!
I understand where you're coming from - but with smarter.com there's a button in the bottom left for 'more' which will display the next page of results. The thing i liked about smarter is if you search for a term like 'golf' you can see what they are trying to do - a kind of search/portal hybrid thing.
About all SEs using ODP, yes its a great source of links, but if you were going to use that as your main source of data for a search engine then you wouldn't have any of the body text for each site to search, just the ODP description (i've never used the dunp myself, so apologies if I'm wrong)
which would be fairly useless.
I just prefer sites that have gone out and tried to crawl and get proper content to search through, even if they have to start small - all SEs started from scratch one day.
The trouble with discussing a small engine, say one with less than 10 million uls, is that all to often, it is the person that owned / built / or is involved with the engine they'd like to discuss.
While that is not always bad, how do we know the difference between a 'quality' engine and a small one that somebody built over the weekend?
yes, I noticed that smarter is also using fast ( their logo on the bottom ) and the overture listings at the top -> but we've got forums here for pay per click, and also for alltheweb / which is owned / run by Fast Search and Transfer.
If we discussed here, in this forum, every engine on the planet, we could pick 1 a day, and have engines to discuss till 2030 :)
99.9% of those will never have any traffic - because people don't need them.
Similarly, people don't *need* WiseNut, Gigablast, KarTOO, etc - for the most part, none of those have anything 'novel' with the exception being the interface aspect of KarTOO.
The reason we won't discuss every small engine on the block here is that if we did, how would we know the difference between a project that will be something next year, and one person's attempt to violate the WebmasterWorld Terms of Service [webmasterworld.com].
Answer is, we'll never know.
If smarter, or any other search engine for that matter, gets some market share / users / funding / what not, then yes, we will be discussing it here.
Till then, those are just good examples of the kinds of things that don't really fit in.
We're after engines that could produce referrals today, tomorrow, and next year.
We've seen, time and again, portal, engine, etc fail - because they didn't have anything novel to offer the user. They didn't market themselves effectively. They didn't promote among the community that, in many ways, could have helped them survive.
Think about Northern Light, Excite, InfoSeek, (now) Altavista, etc - they all had serious $$$, and now are basically toast, with little to no traffic.
Nothing to see, nothing to do.
How is one person wiht a database of 300K urls or what not going to even hope to compete with that, if those failed, the person building the db of 300K - if they stop there - had best pack it up and save themselves the heartache of failure.
But - if the can do something novel, interesting, and exciting, believe me - we'll be discussing it, and they will benefit immensely from the huge crowd of webmasters here, and at the tons of other community / webmaster related sites.
I hope this helps clarify my point a bit better. I started this thread to try to get a few ideas for what we should talk about here, versus what we end up talking about.
There is a lot of interest in search engines, obviously - we just need to keep focused on those that are *the best of the rest* as opposed to simply being, the rest of the rest.