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What to use instead of Google

I am dissatisfied with Google and want to change

     
1:25 am on Nov 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I am wondering, now that Google has completely scrued over SEO'ers, what is the second best engine to Google? And how can I optimize for it (best in terms of traffic)?
9:59 pm on Nov 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

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*bump*
10:03 pm on Nov 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Look into Inktomi. There are a lot of threads about it in the Paid Inclusion forum [webmasterworld.com...]

Woz

7:23 am on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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If Google is losing favour there are plenty of opportunities for newcomers. People will turn to AV/ATW/Ink of course but there are many more holes than they alone can fill.

It seems to me there are opportunities here for smaller more focused directories and engines to take up the slack a little.

Onya
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7:29 am on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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There are lots of opportunities for focused directories and engines but they need the likes of google to be put in the serps for joe searcher in the first place otherwise they either will not be found or it would cost too much money to promote it

ncw164x

5:41 pm on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The second best is

[alltheweb.com...]

Great search engines with very good results, some times better then Google.com, for some time now google.com has had some bad results like the site not there when you click on the link and so on.

7:41 pm on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I am wondering, now that Google has completely scrued over SEO'ers, what is the second best engine to Google? And how can I optimize for it (best in terms of traffic)?

Without Google you are as good as dead. There is no second best engine.

Ok, if you fokus on both FAST and Inktomi and get good rankings you might still get some traffic, be prepared to throw a lot of money into PFI.

7:59 pm on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Some internet based companies should get down off their high horse before:
1: You and me eventually pull them off.
2: Someone gets a bigger horse

cf

8:52 pm on Nov 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I would optimize for as many as you can, you never know when/who the next big engine will be, saying google with be number 1 forevery is wrong.
1:39 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Well I'll try Ink, Yahoo bought them out so hopefully they'll switch to Ink results instead of Google, as Google is not as stable any more
3:12 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Ink is important to look at - due to MSN (which i see more ROI from than G), and also that it will be feeding Y! in the coming future.

Teoma, Altavista, Alltheweb are all worth looking at also.

Another angle is too look at getting listings on other highly related sites, i see quite a lot of referrals that way.

3:36 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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IMHO it is never a good idea to put all of your widgets in one google...... oops, sorry about that. ;)
3:45 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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> Without Google you are as good as dead. There is no second best engine.

yep heard that one many times - what a load of rubbish, there was once a time when Google did'nt exist.

4:09 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Maybe you need a more targeted audience, therefore a niche directory of sort?
9:06 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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A lot of incomming links, good html, good content and your page will be optimized for all search engines.
Don't worry too much about optimization: all search engines want the same: pages usefull for the visitors. Simply make a good page and let the engine know that it is good. If you do that, you'll rank high.

Greetings,
Herenvardö

10:38 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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it's all very well saying what engine to optimise next for but unfortunately Joe public use G, so the next question is how do you educate them to use a different engine?

Lets face it market trends unfortunately all point towards G so thats the only engine to optimise for, although I do look forward to the day when Y shows Ink, dam never thought I would say that :( what have you done G

11:15 am on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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it's all very well saying what engine to optimise next for but unfortunately Joe public use G, so the next question is how do you educate them to use a different engine?

The same way Google was promoted at the very start - with word of mouth. It was the techies and the industry insiders that first were enamoured with Google and spread the word. These days it's second-rate journalists who throw the G word around in articles and interviews and think it makes them sound important and knowledgeable.

My own websites and SEO aside, I just don't like the results from G that I get for everyday queries, so I use ATW for more and more things - and I tell other people about it too. It won't happen overnight, but the way it's going somethings gotta give.

2odd...

9:00 pm on Nov 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I still think Wisenut.com does a good job, but it is not that heavy visited by users, so the next must be altheweb.com

Google has the best results in may 2003, but now theres alot of amazon like results and if I do a serch for bla bla on Google.de I just get 1 good result from the first 4 pages, the rest is universitys or other org, that has nothing speacial to do with the subject, but the keyword is somewhere on the page.

zeus

8:19 am on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Yuntis / Gigablast / Kartoo are the 2nd teir I use, after Google. I use Teoma sometimes too, but it's more main stream...I try to only support those that lack PFI and or XML CPC based inclusion programs because I don't know what the SERP is versus the adversisement in engines like Ink or Alltheweb.
10:17 am on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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For a long time, I've used G for general searches and AV for specific ones. Now I've seen that ATW gives the precission of AV and the coherent ranking of G.
I don't know the future and I cannot know who will be the heir of Google, but I bet for AllTheWeb.
In my opinion, the best engine I have ever seen! ;)

Greetings,
Herenvardö

11:17 am on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>> I don't know the future and I cannot know who will be the heir of Google, but I bet for AllTheWeb. <<

ATW's 'Advanced Search' has always been better than Google IMHO. Now it's significantly better. The problem is though, that Yahoo will plump for Ink and not ATW.

Having said that, yes, I agree with the posters above that pure Ink is better than Google at present for most searches.

>> I do look forward to the day when Y shows Ink, dam never thought I would say that :( what have you done G <<

Me too Tigger. What a turnaround.

12:59 pm on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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For an engine to actually search with I agree with Jeremy, using Gigablast for awhile now and most of the time I dig up some interesting sites with it. And for those occasions where I cannot find it with Gigablast they have those handy "Try your search on ..." links at the bottom of every SERP, which makes it easy to hunt on the rest.

My point is that Gigablast often digs up and ranks highly, good sites that often get buried on Google.

I will have to try Yuntis.

As a webmaster, Ink will be the Un-Google in the near term and the one to target for commercial quantities of traffic.

1:52 pm on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Yuntis (at least momentarily) lacks a critical feature for search, namely the ability to return any results, good, bad or indifferent, at all.
3:25 pm on Nov 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I've gone back to the IXQuick meta search engine, which I
used before Google caught my eye. If Google does not improve
I might even download "search ferret again,
that's if they still exist ;~))
5:48 pm on Dec 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Maybe we should look at Yahoo.com because they have all the top engines apart from Google.com

They own overture.com, Inktomi, alltheweb, av.com.....

3:49 am on Dec 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Be patient and the Nutch engine will take over. Supposed to be the what Linux is to OS, Nutch is to Search Engine/Data Mining.
8:36 am on Dec 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Second best for traffic at the moment is Yahoo! So optimize for Google at the moment and maybe Ink in the New Year. MSN is the third best referrer so optimize for Ink and look out for the MSN bot in your logs.

Also, the traffic from the other search engines, directories and other sites linking to you all adds up.

9:40 pm on Dec 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Re: Nutch engine

I download Nutch and installed on my Linux server, it's ok but has very high server loads because its coded in Java.

When the JVM loads the CPU rate goes up to 100% and my box has 2gigs of ram and a very good CPU.

and when I run index the loads are the same...:(

10:26 pm on Dec 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

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They're all a crock!
Wife rang from London, asking me to look for a shop that sold widgets in wonderland.
Easy-peasy, right? Not anymore.
Gave up after 30 minutes, Google, Fast, Inktomi and AV were useless, as were the various ads I came across, two years ago I'd have had half a dozen possibilities.
We're going backwards.

[edited by: jeremy_goodrich at 9:39 pm (utc) on Dec. 16, 2003]
[edit reason] removed specifics [/edit]

5:56 am on Dec 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I download Nutch and installed on my Linux server, it's ok but has very high server loads because its coded in Java.

When the JVM loads the CPU rate goes up to 100% and my box has 2gigs of ram and a very good CPU.

and when I run index the loads are the same...:(

You could always give Mnogosearch ( [search.mnogo.ru...] )or Aspseek ( [aspseek.org...] )a try. They can run with MySQL and Mnogosearch can handle a few other databases such as Postgres as well. Nutch looks like a fairly early release and I haven't looked closely at it.

Setting up your own personal search engine is easy but the main problem is with the database of URLs. First you have to get them. The quick way is to use ODP/dmoz as an input. This can cause problems because of the quality of some of the Dmoz entries and websites.

The second and perhaps more crucial problem is keeping it current. You have to tweak it and keep removing dead links and this generally means spidering the URLs on a regular basis. A possible Napster-like (in terms of spread/distribution) network of personal search engines may yet prove an alternative to Google.

Regards...jmcc
(Search engine operator among other things.)

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