MSN US drops a major chunk of Looksmart listings

[Imaster]

MSN (US) is testing the SERPs with very little results from the Looksmart directory. In short, a major chunk of directory results (around 60%) has been cut off. I remember MSN was going to test its SERPs without the directory results. So we may be seeing the beginning of that phase.

[jeremy goodrich]

Let's see, first we had MSN to drop LOOk [webmasterworld.com] and this was after they (MSN) had already announced a trial period where they would NOT include LookSmart in their listings.

So ya, I'd say that MSN (INK) traffic is up, and the other is gone. :) You should have been seeing an incresae in MSN traffic for a few months now during that test period...

[ganderla]

I was getting high rankings and good traffic from MSN via looksmart listing and now they are just totally gone. I am not really a happy camper about this. Is there anything I can do?

[martinibuster]

Where did you receive the 60% figure?

I don't see any change in the MSN US results. I'm still seeing Look and Zeal results in N.California.

[Imaster]

martinibuster,

Do a search for any keywords on MSN as well as LookSmart and you will notice the change. Looksmart/Zeal listings are indeed there, but more than 60% of the listings are omitted. Do a search for several keywords and you will see what I mean. If you want any examples, sticky me.

Another way is to browse through the MSN directory and LookSmart directory. You will see that tons of categories in MSN are simply blank, whereas the same categories in Looksmart are filled with sites.

[martinibuster]

hmmm... there's been a discrepancy between the two directories for awhile now.

Check out this thread from August:

MSN web directory does not match Looksmart
Is MSN dropping free Looksmart directory listing?
[webmasterworld.com ]

[jimbeetle]

there's been a discrepancy between the two directories for awhile now

Yep.

I'm not seeing much new, now 91 Looksmart listings, versus 81, before Ink results for a term I check every now and then.

[steveb]

60%? Near as I can tell, as of 36 hours ago 100% of my Zeal listings are not showing on MSN.

MSNbot has been crawling me every day for the past five days.

Can't blame anybody for getting rid of Looksmart even if it means 90% of my referalls are gone, but showing that Ink trash as results (plus the often irrelevant paid listings) sure should send surfers hunting for Google or Yahoo real quick.

Maybe they are just making it so no matter what they put up via the msnbot data we will be pleased at the improvement.

[madmatt69]

Yeah...I lost about 3/4s of my traffic from MSN now as a result. Looksmart pretty much lost all it's value to me.

[martinibuster]

Yeah...I lost about 3/4s of my traffic from MSN now as a result.

MSN US has not dropped LS yet.

MSN Directory has not matched the LS directory for awhile (see the previous thread mentioned above). MSN Search is still delivering the same LS results as before.

If you have experienced a drop in MSN referrals it's more likely due to Inktomi's glitch, as there has been no change in LS serps withing MSN US.

[steveb]

"as there has been no change in LS serps withing MSN US."

As this thread is pointing out, there has been a massive change.

[dillonstars]

I used to have great MSN listings for one of my sites and I just checked and I have lost all my places. I found myself lurking at number 50odd for 1 term where i used to be number one.

All my MSN traffic has vanished.

[martinibuster]

All my MSN traffic has vanished.

That is a vague statement. That poster doesn't state if their listing was in web page results. Their result is likely related to the ink glitch.

The originator of this thread erroneously based their assumption by looking at the MSN Directory and belatedly noticing that it didn't match LookSmart's. Uhm, wake up call for sleeping webmasters? That's old news, as I pointed out in message#6.

A couple panicked posts by people who cannot discern a "web page" result from a "web directory" result, or have no clue about the difference between the MSN Directory and LS Directory does not change what I am seeing: NO CHANGE.

I don't doubt that their traffic has suffered, but it's likely related to the Ink glitch. The sky is not falling (yet).

[Imaster]

The originator of this thread erroneously based their assumption by looking at the MSN Directory and belatedly noticing that it didn't match LookSmart's. Uhm, wake up call for sleeping webmasters? That's old news, as I pointed out in message#6.

I assume that you know all, but I have reasons to believe what I stated. Perhaps if you delete your cache and recheck the SERPs, you would notice that what we all are saying is indeed true and not rumours.

A couple panicked posts by people who cannot discern a "web page" result from a "web directory" result, or have no clue about the difference between the MSN Directory and LS Directory does not change what I am seeing: NO CHANGE.

Why don't you really check some sites that you know and compare them at both the places. That may help you learn more about the current status.

Ink glitch

What glitch?

[onedumbear]

You could check out this panic style thread about Did ink change their algo rythm? [webmasterworld.com]
I believe they are related.
Or you could accept martinibuster's statement on the ink "glitch". You will all sleep better if you accept the glitch theory.
The odds on this in vegas favor martinibuster's statement.

[martinibuster]

Why don't you really check some sites that you know and compare them at both the places. That may help you learn more about the current status.

Of course there's a difference between the LS Directory and MSN Directory- There has always been a difference. The MSN Directory and the LS directory have never exactly matched. That's why I state that there has been no change.

What glitch?

That's the root of your misunderstanding. Please read this 100+ post [webmasterworld.com] about Inktomi that has been ongoing since October 1st.

[Imaster]

Yeah, missed that one. But thats a completely different issue. I am simply stating my observation about the "WEB DIRECTORY SITES" (Looksmart) sites in MSN and not the "WEB PAGES" (Inktomi).

[dillonstars]

Sorry for my panicked statement, I will try to figure out why all my MSN listings have vanished by reading the other threads. My results were in 'web pages results', but assumed this thread meant that looksmart could influence those results as well as the directory results.

[steveb]

martinibuster you need to look at the MSN results. Most Looksmart directory results have been removed from where they were displayed in search results.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO WITH INKTOMI.

Okay, can we stop talking about that now?

MSN is no longer displaying a majority of the sites it used to display as "WEB DIRECTORY SITES". Some are still there, but most are gone.

Many of those still displayed are unpaid Zeal ones, so those aren't what was dropped. Whatever the reason though, there has been a massive change in MSN results in the past couple days.

[martinibuster]

I don't doubt you may be experiencing massive drop-offs in msn referrals, but there have been less than a handful of people in this thread confirming a LS dropoff, and one of them realized they were mistaken and backed out.

If there were something going on with the scale that keeps getting mentioned in this thread, I think I would be able to see it, and this thread would be much longer than it really is.

For both zeal and paid LS directory listings in MSN US, I'm not seeing it...yet. And neither are a lot of other people.

[NFFC]

>And neither are a lot of other people.

I'm UK based but follow a fair few msn.com terms, no change at all from here.

[steveb]

Well obviously if you haven't been dropped you wouldn't notice a drop.

All you have to do is do a search you are familiar with, or compare one to a search of Looksmart. Where their used to be three directory sites listed, now there are now. Where there used to be 90, now there are twelve.

[DaveN]

MSN and Looksmart watcher here, US seems ok from here too.

DaveN

[Chris_D]

err... did some of those listings stop paying for their Looksmart clicks? Isn't that the regular monthly issue? Half way through the month, some sites who are on the Looksmart pay per click package (often referred to as actdumb?) have their prebudgeted clicks have run out, and so they get dropped until the end of the month top up? Hasn't this been the situation for the past 9mths - year or so?

Try the same searches on 1 - 5th of the month and I reckon the planets will have realigned.....

Chris_D
Sydney Australia

[steveb]

It has nothing to do with paying Looksmart. Most directory listings come from Zeal.

[NFFC]

>Most directory listings come from Zeal.

You have any data to back that up?

[Imaster]

You have any data to back that up?

It is a known fact.

I don't understand why people are in a complete state of denial here. It is right there - MSN US is testing it's beta search engine (just like it did on MSN UK a month back) and has removed around 60% of results from Zeal/LS.

The listings added through Looksmart get added to the Zeal database as paid listings. Thus the non-commercial sites directly added to Zeal by members along with these paid listings added via Looksmart together comprise of the "Web Directory" sites on MSN.

In this "Web Directory" portion of MSN, 60-80% of overall sites are missing, and not just paid listings, even non-commercial listings from Zeal.

[Chris_D]

SteveB and Imaster,

You need to go and actually look at what type of sites get a 'free' listing at Zeal - which gets them into Looksmart, which gets them into MSN (at least until Mid Jan 2004).

I can still see Zeal listings in MSN.

Maybe if you read this page, it will become a little clearer: [zeal.com...]

Webmasters who wish to have a commercial site considered for inclusion in the (Zeal) directory, and site proprietors who would like to update an existing commercial listing, may submit their site or request changes through LookSmart's LookListings Small Business product.

If all you can see in Looksmart is 'Zeal' non commercial, free entries - that proves my point - all the paid for, commercial clicks had run out by this time of the month. Check again on the 2nd or 3rd day of the month.

Chris_D
Sydney Australia,

[Imaster]

Ok, here it goes. This may help you understand it better.

Check out the pages for the same category under Looksmart and MSN. [Entertainment > Television > Television Industry > Guides & Directories]

[looksmart.com...] [has 12 sites]

[search.msn.com...] [has 4 sites]

Can you explain me where the rest 8 sites disappeared?

Some may say it is not necessary for a site to exist in a category to appear in SERPs. So I have picked an example of a missing site "TV Rundown". This site exists in the above category in Looksmart, but is missing from MSN.

Now after doing a search for "TV Rundown" in MSN, I did get a result for the same page. But the result was from the web pages section (Inktomi results) and not the Web Directory section (Looksmart results). This is more than enough to prove that tons of listings (both commercial and free) have been dropped.

Chris_D, I am glad to know that you are sharing your view here, but are you sharing your experience about MSN AU?

I can still see Zeal listings in MSN.

Of course, you can because not all have been dropped.

[Chris_D]

Hi Imaster,

Ok - I see what you are saying based on that example. My theory clearly doesn't hold - as there are mostly unpaid listings which are not being shown in MSN in your example.

I just tried a pure commercial category:

Shopping > Online Stores

If you look at that example - the same 8 entries are listed in Zeal.com ; Looksmart.com , and MSN.com

Yes - ninemsn.com.au and looksmart.com.au were still in 'sync' here in Australia for the comparisions I just made.

Chris_D