Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Keep sharing your personal experiences with linking where it’s applicable, we are all learning and you may have a clue that helps us all move it to another level. That’s all I’m trying to do, pump it up.
What I want to know before we start is where everyone is now with linking, what you want to know more about, whatever it takes to pump it up. We still don’t have a new charter for this forum. We are a community here and I’m happy to keep guiding but I like to learn too, I’m not the only one with tips and secrets to revel. Let’s do it.
Talk to me. What can we do to generate 5200+ posts over the next 4 ½ months?
What I'd like to know about is this:
If there is a site that has a lot of affiliate links...
and this site has a page named /links.htm...
and this /links.htm page is full of links to other affiliate sites...
why on earth would Google give ANY weight whatsoever to these links? Isn't it obvious that these links are NOT votes for the validity of the content on the linked-to site, rather, simply links done to increase PR?
What do you mean by where we each are?
How many links we now have?
How we go about choosing who to link to at the present time?
As to what I'd like to learn, well...
How to incorporate a directory style links section into a site.
How to best feed appropriate traffic to that directory.
How to feed traffic from that directory to my own site if I believe I have the relevant info available.
How to interact with other webmasters effectively in regards to links, recipricol or otherwise.
If I recall right, in a recent thread here someone posted a link to info showing a decline in random surfing via on site outbound links.
If that's accurate, it's worthy of discussion because it directly impacts the linking concept. If the use of onsite outbound links is declining for random surfing, then it seems important that we all understand how to make outbound links attractive and usefull for targeted surfing. Making them work well for everyone requires we not only understand the process ourselves but that we are able to communicate it effectively with those we link to.
As for me, I've never asked anyone for a link that I can recall. I have asked a few people for permission to link to them, not a normal practice, but special circumstances made it seem prudent. Normally I just link to whoever I want. So the communicating effectively thing is important for me to learn.
I'll stop now before I ramble too far off the path, if I haven't already.
jk3210, much as I'd love to debate PR with you, that's a subject specific to the Google News Forum. Let us try to keep it general to linking.
Great start, thanks.
I'm game! I do a lot of research on linking patterns and structures, PR distribution and flow, etc. but overall, looking for links has actually been one of my least favorite things to do, even though I enjoy the surfing part and dicovering wonderful sites.
>>What can we do
How about seeing if we can come up with some related but *different* types of topics that aren't generally covered or asked about much when talking about linking? It would be nice to get really outside the box, get new perspectives and see it from a different viewpoint altogether.
>>where everyone is now with linking
I've begun to take a renewed interest in it, which comes at a good time because there are a few sites I have to implement linking programs for. I'd like to be able to approach it with more enthusiasm than I've had for the subject of linking in the past.
I'm re-thinking the whole linking thing, actually. I've been poring through a few research papers in whatever spare time I can muster, and it's really recreational or pleasure reading.
There's actually no such thing as a web site (or web page) that can live by itself in a vacuum. Either they have inbound or outbound or reciprocal links, or at the very least have internal links. So I've been trying to apply what I'm seeing in those papers with a renewed perspective, not only looking to on-page elements, particularly important with more attention being paid to Inktomi nowadays, but being attentive to their application to linking principles and strategies as well, as they relate to potential for scoring well with search engines. Not so much link development, more theoretical.
A couple of things stopped me short and made my eyes open wide. I'll have to read those passages again and hone in on the points made that really stood out, because we've skirted around close to those issues here at the board over time, but have never gotten into them in depth.
>>what you want to know more about
Probably a lot of us, as professional webmasters/web designers/developers/SEOs, might enjoy or need to delve a little more into the business end of things: how we can effectively develop a working model for integrating link development and management campaigns into our business models, if we haven't done so already.
One thing that I'd like to hear other people's ideas about is other ways of developing linking relationships. It's usually done on the internet - through networking, surfing, email, etc. But how about opportunities off-line that might exist for developing quality linking relationships? I'm giving that some thought, since one of the campaigns I'll be working on is focused primarily on a local level, and I could probably push it for another also. I've got a few ways in mind I'm tossing around.
Most of all, I'd like to see some discussion of how principles from research papers can be applied to the practical realities we deal with in developing sites, relative to all aspects of linking, both with external sites and within our own, and how linking practices inter-relate with the various elements of on-page site optimization. That's the fun part, but it would probably take someone who's a puzzle fan to consider that fun. :)
How else can we look beyond [webmasterworld.com] those "keyword + add url" searches?
Now that you've established a presence on the web and are actively exchanging links, is it important to counter balance the reciprocals with one way links in both directions?
i'd love to discuss
and i'll commit to set aside some time and post my ideas for debate on these subjects in the coming weeks
I want to read and discuss (and hopefully contribute) worthwhile ideas _applied_with_intelligence_ and this is one forum where I consistently read things that start me thinking.
There is a (very large) place in this industry for the down-and-dirty site. The people that have success with that tactic seem very switched-on and willing to put in the necessary effort which brings rewards.
There are many others, however, who see the benefits but want the quick fix ("How many of my sites am I allowed to link together?" "I rewrote some content from somewhere else to cover my affiliate links but the directory won't accept my site!" "Does this search engine discount links which are almost but not quite the same colour?")
A link farm (however it is constructed) is a quick fix. What paynt and others here talk about takes effort and ingenuity and objectivity. I'm happy to put in that work on the sites I deal with, it's what gives me satisfaction in this industry, and I hope that there are many more of us here...
Hey I'm all for it, all the way!
I did post something similar here as a wish a while ago. Everything so far suggested in this thread is great and I am all for it. Additionally, my wish would be:
Is there a way we could create a section on Webmaster World that would deal exclusively with link exchange. A sort of central, converging point where people like us SEO's and webmasters could meet, talk and possibly exchange some valuable links? I think the need for such a place is needed and could further drive additional quality traffic INTO this great resource we have called Webmaster World!
I sometimes visit the websites of some webmasters on WW, if they have it identified in their user profile. I have seen some great resources, very well written, very professional. As we all know here, researching, initiating, conducting, verifying and executing a successful reciprocal link exchange program is both time-consuming and sometimes can be a bit frustrating too.
As professional webmasters, our first consideration are our clients and how we can better serve them with quality content and well written sites for their end users. If we could have such a link exchange "center" I am talking about here, I think we would all benefit.
Thanks to WW and to Brett Tabke for such a great resource.
:-) I'm all for it!
Since you asked, how about offering something similar to NickW CSS Crash Course. I finished the course, learned a great deal, and my site is now 95% CSS. And I refer back to that forum all the time because of the course.
I would like to see what are the most important ways of going about linking, the priorities, success stories, etc. With my new site, I would really appreciate some "hand-holding" in a Linking Course to get me over the learning curve.
Thanks for asking.
Web Footed Newbie
There are some threads spread around, perhaps we can focus here on the ones that pertain to linking...
research papers
I'd like to see a few of them discussed in here, with in house residence (i.e. not google news or SEM for that matter) Did you know that the average DMOZ page has about 12 links? :)
paynt, if you could get a round up of some of the big papers discussing links/link text that would be class.
I'm sure they will be thought provoking for extra postage ;)
Well, keep posting ideas and stay tuned. I’ll get a discussion going here soon we can get to it. So many good ideas.
something similar to NickW CSS Crash Course
A typical post from Paynt is a crash course in itself... ;) We all ought to be lining up at PubConference to buy her a brew...
I'll second topr8's suggestion about link management systems. Keeping track of links on multiple sites is a real job - heavy duty contact management functions, checking not only for 404s but changed content, etc. The greater the number of sites and links, the bigger the job this is.
That's come up periodically and could never happen.
The most recent:
[webmasterworld.com...]
The bottom line on the subject:
[webmasterworld.com...]
Nope, no recip link exchange here. Spam and management problems everywhere.
>>I honestly think that one-way inbound links are better than reciprical (sp?) links.
So do I, particularly so if they're from what are considered authoritative sources. Hard to get, worth a lot.
I think it would be very interesting and exciting to get into areas that just don't usually even get touched on when talking about linking.
Pardo started us on the road to the directory discussion with, best linking structure for a directory [webmasterworld.com]. We can talk about directory linking structure specifically in that discussion. I’m putting together an Intro to Directory Building post right now, it’s just not ready. I can tie into Pardo’s discussion from mine so they don’t lose site of each other.
Keep posting here with ideas for new discussions, if there are topics other than these that you think we need to talk about.
Google specific so we can't have it here but this is a great debate well worth a read. Too bad, it would have made a great one for my challenge.
We’ve also moved past the 5000 mark, that’s exciting. I want to dispel the myth that there isn’t much new to offer with regards to linking. I actually heard someone I respect say that in Boston. Boy, do we have some work to do. Thanks again though, for keeping it hopping around here over the past month.
All right. All I can say is, for the most part, about 98% of my reciprocal link exchange strategy has been very very successful. I am speaking here on behalf of our clients and on behalf of my own sites (Can a web site talk?)
So far, there has not been one single link exchange campaign that we didn't see the added benefits in terms of:
1) Increased, quality traffic
2) Targeted and on-topic traffic
3) Higher PR (Yesssss)!
4) Generally higher rankings in the engines
5) Increased customer satisfaction, higher visibility
Like this nice SEO gentlemen this week down south (maybe he will recognize himself in this forum) that politely invited me to link to his seo website (wich I did). What he did was link directly to one of our important pages that deal specifically with intranet development. I tought it was a cool idea. Nice people too, by the way.
So, I'm all for it, all the way!
Too me, recip links are a BIG must, as much in the SEO business as any other web field.
:-) What do the others say? SEO
Trying to define keywords across the site is almost impossible but I will try to implement keyword META tags (as mentioned in Google News, they're used) but still getting links is difficult if not impossible. I manage a few here and there but it's hard finding someone willing to link.
1- Webmaster World YEAHH!
2- Google hurray too!
3- Our seo techniques wich are obviously paying off
Life is beautiful when you'r at the top...
Just kidding obviously, but really, inbound quality links that are right on-topic is almost like pure magic to your rankings. PR is one thing, but you just cannot beat good 'ol anchor text links with keywords-rich and key-phrase data that will pull like a magnet...
From day One, I am 1000% convinved all the way as far as recips are concerned.... I think I will change my nick from SEO practioner to RLE practioner... hehehehe
:-)
Marcia, I know youv'e been doing a great deal of research on this important subject and I sure would love to hear more of your experiences so far in the matter.
To me, recips are the best
SEO
Starting with these:
Building a Reciprocal Links Directory [webmasterworld.com]
The Reciprocal Partnership [webmasterworld.com]
Random Surfing Via On Site Outbound Links [webmasterworld.com]
Linking Patterns and Structures [webmasterworld.com]
Theoretical Discussion On Linking [webmasterworld.com] Digging into the research papers
Integrating Link Development and Management Campaigns [webmasterworld.com] Into Business Models
Will be adding these later this week:
Linking Personal Sites
Taking Linking Off Line
Artificial Link Popularity – part two
Links Management Systems
More Linking Outside the Box
