Forum Moderators: martinibuster
My first question:
I want to set up a limited, but quality links page for my visitors. Most of the threads here seem to indicate reciprocal links are good, but I keep seeing blurbs about how outbound and/or reciprocal links cause PR loss. This implies reciprocal linking is bad and that you should only have inbound links. I know I'm missing something important here. Would someone explain the PR impact of outbound/reciprocal links and why losing PR in this case is not a bad thing? Thanks!
I think this is a great discussion about PR leakage. I hope it helps.
How much PR does my page loose by linking? [webmasterworld.com]
It sounds like the worst case is that reciprocal links are a zero sum game. In that case I would still see a quality links page as being a good thing since it performs a service for my visitors without hurting my site.
If your campaign isn’t successful I suggest starting with you first comment
…I want to set up a limited, but quality links page for my visitors…
If you are setting up a “link page” then I predict your campaign eventually headed for failure. Reciprocal link campaigning deserves much more attention to detail than that. You may be making light of your strategy but because we have so many lurkers here and I’m not sure of their level of knowledge, I like to define situations in very simple terms.
Successful reciprocal linking campaigns are born from well-developed link strategies.
…Most of the threads here seem to indicate reciprocal links are good…
I think we can all agree that links are good. I believe reciprocal linking can contribute to a sites success if the campaign is executed from a strategic plan. Developing a strategic plan should include the very PR issues you bring up in the discussion.
Real success in linking as an optimization strategy comes from research and planning that considers both what you wish to gain vs what you are willing to offer.
I'm trying to work on the same thing for our site and I think Puzzleboy is thinking of his "link page" strickly as a service for his visitors, not neccessarily as an "end all, be all" to his campaign. At least that is my plan.
We have a lot of customers that WANT to know who we recommend and who/how others are using our products. That is what we use our Links page for now.
Our "campaign" that we are starting is not to get more people to link to us by doing recips using that Links page, it is to get the right people to, link to us (properly). (notice the lack of mentioning recips in that last part)
However, I would like to have you expand upon why you think his "Link Page" strategy will fail.
(re-reading this post, it sounds more antagonistic than I mean it. Please understand that I appreciate that, in this situation, you are the expert and I am "learning". :))
What I’m trying to say is we have (or should have) moved beyond the single link page, for the larger link campaigns. They are all too often ugly, messy and unthemed, a total unorganized mess. The Pagerank is often quite low and there’s nothing that screams out, “Link to Me!” That’s all I’m saying with this. This may not be the case for you. If you are offering less than 10 sites as link partners I doubt it really matters as you’re most likely not opening your link campaign to new partnerships. For me it’s taking it back to the purpose behind your plan and what you hope to gain by it.
PageRank was never meant as a mechanism to develop a "SUPERPOWER", it is only a guage. A PR1 page can beat a PR7 page in rankings - thus if you sit and consider "PageRank Leakage" you will never achieve what you wish -- to rank better than you are now.
Better strategy - place outbound links on the most appropriate page -- that is: if the linked site adds value (more content or a different perspective) to visitors on a page about "elephants" place it on that page. Adding another page "does not add value to visitors" and as such limits ranking potential for you.
Yes - your own ranking potential.
Some rules to follow by
1. What is the actual meta page title. If "Links Page" then less weight. Google reads meta titles - a meta title with elephants means your link is more relevant to that topic.
2. Content of the page itself. Google reads page text in proximity of link. Thus if a page about elephants add more weight than a page about anything else, or everything else.
3. Even if the site/page does not link back to you - remember that these sites link to other sites and those sites link to sites and so on... and on the "same theme" and some will/do link back to you, however, your links on a "Links Page" is in the wrong place - therefore may well be "unrelated" or less related to these other sites.
4. A volume of Backlinks must be relevant to something in order for PageRank to have the desired effect. So a highly relevant outbound link "passes PageRank" and eventually the same highly relevant "passed PageRank" works its way back to you.
Don't lose sight of relevancy in favor of a Toolbar PR value... if there is no real relevance... PageRank matters not. Sites with PR7 prove this time and time again when a PR3, 4 or 5 are ranked above them.
Special note: In the greater scheme of things link exchanges are more about who is pointing to those pages that are pointing to you and what those third party pages are saying than what you are saying about yourself.
A common response often used to counted this... "I don't want to give away my visitors before they read/see my most important pages!"
Arrogance always believes visitors "never leave". In addition, this goes against human nature. We are curious people and the more friendly you make your site by allowing humans to be human... the more they will remember you, and thus their return... but you really can't stop them "ever" from leaving so why try? Make this a benefit of your site.
There are many ways to limit total loses that never return... like target="_blank" at the end of the link reference - your site is always underneath.
Professionally I convince site owners to link directly to competitors comparable products. This is a competitive advantage... show what is best about your products against the negative points of others.
Do you lose visitors - well yes -- some, but you also increase your conversions and that's what matters most.
In the end "PageRank Leakage" is a bad mindset... many lose the point of why PageRank was developed in the first place... in favor of manipulating it.
[webmasterworld.com...]
I feel like an idiot now because, had I read that post before making mine here above, well, I wouldn't have made my post. :)
In any event, thanks for your thought provoking thread as well as your comments here. I will just continue to follow that thread for further "learning" and maybe I'll even be able to add something here and there.
You caught me in a rampage and at my worst certainly, picking on everyone’s link strategies, but all in the spirit of good <wink wink> fun I hope. I’m on my soapbox and I’ll be knocking on as many strategies as folks here will put up with. It only works though if you keep posting man.
I have benefitted greatly from this thread. Thanks to all contributors. My questions also cross over the points made at forum3/4598.htm.
Do I read correctly that a incoming link from a high PR site does no good at all for my PR, IF it is in no way related to my page content?
If internal + external links pass around a 'voting value', then by linking outwards, I am giving away some of my own potential voting value to other sites. So, I should NOT be linking out needlessly, but instead use my voting value for my own site?
Next step, if this is the way it works, should I not also (as long as there is a good site navigation system) be pointing internally to my own home page, giving that the best vote, instead of every page linking to every page.
If this is true, then ones internal linking strategy needs very careful thought and planning.
Or, have I just lost the plot?
Do I read correctly that a incoming link from a high PR site does no good at all for my PR, IF it is in no way related to my page content?
That’s not true. Being related does not affect the PR exchange. Being related affords other opportunities, unrelated at this time to PR, as I understand it.
I am giving away some of my own potential voting value to other sites.
You do not loose PR by linking, your PR is used to determine the weight of your vote. The more votes you give from the page - the PR is then shared between those votes. You do not loose your PR in the process.
There are other reasons to link out, that engines use to determine your worth, unrelated to PR. We’ve had some good discussion on outward linking, or linking out. The site search will help draw those forward and the information is still valuable.
pointing internally to my own home page, giving that the best vote, instead of every page linking to every page.
There are some great discussions on deep linking, well worth the site search and reading. I agree you do not want every page to link to every page but I’m not sure a site search for dumb linking strategies will bring those discussions up <tongue in cheek>.
then ones internal linking strategy needs very careful thought and planning.
Bless you cottage, if you’ve got that from your reading we’re doing well around here. Good luck.
