Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Each site we build gets a links page which includes links to the other sites we build, maintain and host. This links page is updated dynamically. Each links page also contains a full blown site map to our main site with descriptive link text for each page and expands to 200+ pages with the various parameters. Our main site is also along the same theme as the sites we build and maintain and should be of interest to visitors of all the sites that have this 'site map'.
The main site does not link back to these client's sites, but it does link to the hosting site. All of the clients sites are hosted on a shared server with the same IP. Most sites have their own domain name, but a few are www.thehostsite.com/~clientsite.
Can this strategy cause problems for us with the search engines?
You should never have to link to an SEO.
Avoid SEOs that talk about the power of "free-for-all" links, link popularity schemes, or submitting your site to thousands of search engines. These are typically useless exercises that do not affect your ranking in the results of the major search engines. At least, not in a way you would likely consider to be positive.
I realize that in the context of your company you are "web designing" and/or acting as a "hosting service".
However, a site map should be of the site it is resident on and not of some other site (your own site).
If indeed these are paying customers - they paid you to design and host and not "massively" advertise yourself.
This is totally unethical and from my personal perspective and regardless of whether Googlebot would preceive this as spam, I would personally submit to Google a spam report, if finding this in their index.
I sincerely apologize for my strong advocation here - but I believe you should seriously re-evaluate your strategies - you are IMHO abusing your design position.
First, the 'site map' in question contains content of tremendous interest to the visitors of the sites we build. Second, the clients are happy to provide it to their site visitors. We are not an SEO company nor is web design our primary business. Ethics are not the issue.
The question remains. Will this cause problems for us with the search engines?
Just because you don't do SEO, refer to yourself as an SEO, and your clients did not pay for SEO... you are employing "unethical techniques" at your client's site's commonly used by unethical SEO's.
Your original question was -- "Can this strategy cause problems for us with the search engines.
The answer most definitely and in more ways than one.
Your competitors can see this as unfair manipulation of your designing practices - and report you as spam.
If so - you are banned
Your client's linking to all of your web pages will thus be banned or at least penalized for "voting overwelmingly voting for you" and that voting is via the site map.
Search engine users could report you - and the same results as well as googlebot red flagging your site.
Sites of similar theme and relevancy - fine - have the site map only on your site and a single link from the clients sites.
Really what is that site map (of different site) for -- to offer a visitor an opportunity to view relevant "on site" information or relevant "your information" I thought you were a website designer and your clients? (Are also web site designers? --- hmmm...?) Ah, but the site map isn't really for visitors but for googlebot, hmmm... that's a tough one! ;
Second, the clients are happy to provide it to their site visitors.
Ignorance is bliss. But in your defence... if indeed the clients know the risk you are taking for them and still quite happy... send them to this thread so that they can receive completely unbiased opinions so that they can make informed decisions about their web sites.
We are not an SEO company nor is web design our primary business. Ethics are not the issue.
You had better consider - that Googlebot cares not what your company tells people what you do - it only cares about what people see through the results of its index - and you are my friend deploying unethical practices and these techniques are clearly defined in Google as bad news.
Keynote: you have defined it as a "site map" Google and the rest of the SEO world calls it something different: more like a doorway page to you. "Site Maps" reside on the site they are mapping.
You ask for advice - obviously because you had a concern and were not sure. I highly recommend taking at least some of it.
Please do not just listen to me, objectively review Google webmaster & SEO guidlines - as well as other members here, but more importantly from your clients - once they know the risk they take with you.
I’ve read your post and have a few questions and some comments.
All sites we build are of similar theme, yet all are quite different in content – mbennie
That comment throws up warning signals. Ultimately with your final question, “Can this strategy cause problems for us with the search engines?“ my response would include a warning, as both fathom and WebRookie have cautioned you.
If you take the time to search through posts on crosslinking and interlinking you’ll find a wealth of relevant information on the subject. You’ll find through your search that the warning bells happen when you combine links to sites “of similar theme, yet all are quite different in content”. There are potential problems with this in that it sets you up for problems down the road but I’d rate it low in risk, it’s just that this plan doesn’t do anything to boost your presence. It’s not as much that it works against you right now, although it might later but it doesn’t work for you. In your search of the site you’ll find better solutions that if utilized can maximize your exposure with less risk.
It’s your next comment that concerns me more…
Each site we build gets a links page which includes links to the other sites we build, maintain and host
Now run a search for link farms and FFA or Free For All links and then search for link programs, mirror linking and so on. What you have described fits what most of us in the biz would categorize as such. This strategy is highly risky and all your clients that participate should be forewarned, it’s only fair. That’s why the question of ethics came up. Some of us strongly believe that clients should be informed of all risks before any promotional activity is put in place. If you doubt that then run a search for PR0 and you’ll find example after example of sites that experienced significant problems utilizing just this strategy.
Everything you say after that is moot once this fact is know, combined with the similar theme with different content and you really begin to see the potential risks.
It’s so good you asked about this though. It shows you are concerned and want to protect yourself and your clients. In the process of asking you may have helped others as well and that’s a very good thing. I suggest you stop now and run some more searches, read up on the topics and then come back with more questions that I am sure will come up.
The 3 problems I believe you have are:
a) Your clients share the same IP address. Some/many search engines log IP addresses (and domain details) and duplicate content (e.g. link content, is easy to pick up).
b) Sites that use www.hostsite.com/~clientsite are rarely considered fully fledged individual sites and therefore rarely considered in the popularity voting algorithms. I've read (some time back) that there are only a few sites granted exception to this rule.
c) Dynamically updated links from a third source (you) on a clients' sites cannot be considered a genuine (democratic) referal vote. This goes against the "intention" policy of most sengs: if your "intention" is to provide visitors with the same useful links on each of your clients' links pages, that's fine; that's your own business. If your intention is for these links to act as genuine, individual votes for other sites (and assist in your ranking,) that is NOT kosher. My guess is that your links would simply be ignored when doing the ranking algorithms (rather than penalized)
If you have been getting away with it so far (and I doubt it) you are walking a tightrope. Search engines change their algorithms constantly, so as soon as they deem one or more of your strategies as suss.....?
Hope this helps
Kieron
