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What Id like to know is HOW the F ..........lip they doing this....????? And believe me, its not like they are MicroSoft or IBM, or General Electric and the like where everybody and their Dog is going to be linking to them anyways.....!!!!! Nope... there justa Regular `O site just like mine..... matter of fact IMHO my site is actually quite a bit better than there's..!!!
So what gives here ........ Anybody know something that I don't...???? Cause however they manage to do it......... Id sure like to be doing the same thing.!!!!
Thanks in Advance for any feedback here.....!!!!!!
Village Idiot ......
Again Sorry for the Idiousy here, but after all, I am the Village Idiot...!!!
villageidiot, there is a recent topic about spam you might want to look at, just to get an idea of the frame of mind of some people who like to abuse the net to their gain
Im not saying your competitor is spamming but is is a POSSIBILITY. They may be setting up links page solely for the purpose of increasing link popularity to their site.
Well, some people are going to jump on me for saying such a thing without proof. I guess you have to ask yourself the motive of the person who made these sites with all the links pointing to the competitors site
Just a little guess on the side here......i assume that both of you are relatively small businesses? if this is the case, and all the links pages are on free sites, you could deduce that the competitor has made them up all himself purely for his gain.
either way, in regards to link pop, i use www.marketleap.com/publinkpop
its a good tool for link pop just to check out whats going on
Thanks for hearing me Ramble on a little bit here... I promise not to do it again..!!!
joined:Sept 1, 2000
I get your dilemma. I understand your need for help here and direction. Whatís terrific about Webmaster World is, given the patience it takes to read up on the individual forums, the time it takes to utilize the site search option above and then read up on the topic you are searching for, not to mention posting questions and waiting for the responses to follow, if you stick with it youíll find the best the world has to offer responding to you. And, itís all free.
So. I suggest you make a list of what you need, in terms of information. Then, I suggest you use the site search to find whatís already been written. If you need more information or further explanation, post your question in the appropriate discussion. If you have a specific question that hasnít been addressed by all means start a new discussion.
With regards to this specific issue itís all about research and how you analyze the information you gather. When competing itís good to go to your competitor and try to get the same links they have, at least if the links PR is good, but itís also good to go out and find your own. Create a site that folks will be coming to you to get links and not you begging links from someone else.
I would be looking at my competitor for not only what links they have that I may want as well but I would look at it as what I can I offer thatís better. You have to build a better mousetrap.
The downside is that their longevity is questionable. Most of the links I've seen on the worst of them are not valid and they'll all go down at the same time. It won't last forever, then something new will come along and work until it's overplayed. The best way is with solid principles and techniques, keeping in mind what to avoid. It may take longer, but is safer in the long run.
Not uncommon in some categories.
It's why se's were so hot on building Web Maps. They can generate local visual web maps and look for linking anomolies. If they find a cluster of 1000domains heavily interlinked to one another and not much going back out into the web - ah ha - they can do all the damage to them they want.
As I said, start looking at whois information for those domains that look like they were template built with near the same look and feel. Not identicle, but just near the same.
Six months ago, I was wondering the same, yet already I am getting top position hits for my favourite keywords with only half a dozen link backs (most of which are mine?).
Listen to the words of wisdom from these guys, mainly:
1) Focus on good content.
2) Check Bretts "Theme-Pyramid".
Good news is around the corner. I am still merely a novice, but again, I believe the wind of change will blow for newbies.
I am not promoting my sites for link backs yet, as I do not want to generate to much traffic until the site is really together, yet because of this technology, already I am out-ranking many of my "Heroes" is salesmanship.
The very good news is this:
Recently whilst surfing my competitors, I noticed pages of unrelated links, which is obviously one of the "Link-farm" type projects spoken of above. Thes appear to be massive lists of varying nature.
I also wondered how SEO's are able to promise their clients top page hits in 7 days, when I know the complexity it took to build my site.
The bottom line is this: These companies take your money and link their hundreds of other sites at you, many of which are unrelated to your product. It only takes them a minute. And obviously has fared well for them.
The good news is this: Search Engines (Google Leading the way) are trying to generate RELATIVE search info, therefore, these hundreds of UN-related links, will not favour as they have with other search engines in the past.
Therefore, these SEO's with massive link lists, will be bypassed in time by site owners with genuine links and GOOD content.
Use Bretts pyramid theme, create half a dozen link-backs to yourself from your subsites(each carrying main keyword + individual subsite site specific keywords.
Then focus on quality content for each of those subsites(all relative to topic of main site).
Last month, I knew I needed to find how to write for Google (who I did not understand), then realised they had already found me, and ranked me position 16(page2) for my favourite expression: "Salesmanship tips". At the time, I only had 1 link back, and had done nothing to deserve this other than having "Quality Relative Content".
Village- "Fear Not" - Build a Quality site, and when the wind of change blows these large "spam-link-lists" out of the window for "irelavant-links", then you shall be lifted up!
Soon, many of these Masters SEO's will suddenly find their lists wont work, then they will have to start again. This is where you have the head start; They dont now this yet.
Stay focused, Build a quality site, make your sub-folders into subsites linking back to your main. This will win the day!
In many "very competitive" industries there are annual / semi-annual conferences.
Side deals are made [person to person] for links between "what appear to be" competitors.
They are competitors but they understand the value of coming together for a common goal.
This makes what may appear to be several domain farms [using whois] actually and much LARGER domain farm. 50,000 is the largest that I know of controlled by 2 guys.
It's all about traffic.
I Just wanted to thank you all for the Positive and helpful feedback givin to me.!
You ALL have been VERY Helpful, and your wisdom and advise is Profoundly Appreciated.!!!! :o)
brotherhood of LAN
Once Again, thank you all VERY much for all your help...!!!!
I`ll be back..!!!
Don't worry too much, initially, about getting 100's of cheap incoming links. Instead, try to get some quality *outgoing* links. I think you mentioned candy in your post. If your site is about candy, then write some content about sugar, or nuts, or something that is peripherally related. Then search the web until you find a really interesting site about sugar or nuts. Then link to that site. Ideally, your outgoing link should be an integral part of some interesting content on your site, not just part of a huge list of links. Eventually, quality outgoing links will bring traffic to your site.
Its more understandable the longer you work on your web site. First, you started on the homepage, essentially the core thinking of your site
From then on, your are producing more content related to that page, and pages related to these pages and so on.
Such is the case with my site, a biology site, which has countless issues that can be written about, and are needed by people who have online access
I switched from a free host and domain to a top level domain and had the ability to use databases and scripts
The extra tools I have to be harnessed on the server has meant that my link popularity increases by about 50% every month. This is from the following
1. About once a month I surf similar sites to mine, by looking up Google under "biology" and referencing my site to the webmaster. If they reply, and think a link would be suitable to my site, they get the opportunity of a reciprocal link if they ask for one, and I add it to my links search engine for biology related sites
2. The other links will come from other webmasters with "biology web sites" who feel my site would be an addition to the links they offer....
....So more content = more people referencing your content on the net. Moreover, since about 65% of people coming to your site are from search engines, more content means more listing on the engines
Like I say, my site looks at biology. I understand many webmasters on the forum offer more than informational content, but also sell products in their site. IMO this is what makes spam such as an issue (just look at all the other posts in the other forums) because of all the crude methods used to get "the eyeballs" looking at their product. Since I dont sell products I cant say much. Ive always thought paid listings on the smaller PPC search engines would be worth it because of the cheap keywords
well thats my $0.02 worth, all in all, working on your site can only be a good thing, keep working on it then the search engines will reward you later (and more links to your site). You cant control your competitors, either start doing what they do or do something better :P
Links2you and all of those other so called link boosting services aren't very good village idiot. Actually SE's like google and others penalize your site's ranking for using them. So in a nut shell I would advise to ditch the link lists.
Think about all the time you can spend making up pages and pages of useless links all for the purpose of linking to another page to boost your link popularity. Yahoo won't list those pages. Not to mention unless your a domain registry your going to be paying at least 8.88 per year for each domain. Then again buying in volume would be cheaper.
I think your best bet and this is what I do for my sites is to visit your "competitors" sites, (i like to refer to them as "fellow webmasters") remember we're all in this together. A good solid reciprocal link from another webmaster's site top's a link list in my book any day.
Remember 90% of the world's wealth is obtained by the top 1%. Instead of running around in circles from site to site get in touch with the big cheese. Don't try to make lemonade without having the lemons first. :-)
Thanks for the Advise, guys...!!!!!!!
The above discussion has certainly made things a bit clearer to me but what happens when a site is listed as linking to another site, but the link is nowere to be found on the page. When I do a search for "search engine optimisation" on google, the first site is [url clipped], which has 3,790 links to it. Understandable then that it would be first in the results page. However, I checked some of the links listed to the site, and can't find links on the page. For example, this is the first link listed, and it is a site related to forests and nature. Why would it link to a search engine company?
Just wondering what could be happening here???
(edited by: paynt at 4:30 pm (utc) on Feb. 26, 2002)
joined:Sept 1, 2000
Thanks for the post. I think what you may be seeing is one of this optimization company's clients has linked back to them. This often happens with optimization, marketing and web design companies. You get unrelated sites linking to you because they like what you do and want to let others know.
It's nice if they are linking to you if you can get the right keywords in the anchor text ;)
Sorry about posting the URL's. didn't realise it wasn't allowed!
But the problem is that when you go to the page which is supposedly linking back to the SEO company site, there's no physical link there. I've checked the page again just to make sure but all the links are related to forestry. could it be an invisible link? I've checked the source code and done a search and there's no sign of a link. Maybe the link isn't there anymore, and Google hasn't logged this yet. But there are other dodgy sites, a lot of which look the same that are linking to it too.
Anyway, I've emailed Google to report it so we'll see what they say.
Now I've just had my boss onto me about why we aren't getting results like this etc etc and am feeling a bit disillusioned. We have always been an upfront company, never using dodgy techniques and always praising the benefits of how we do SEO i.e. getting long term results. But whats the point if there are ALWAYS going to be people who do this sort of thing. Bottom line, most companies we deal with dont know enough about sEO to know it takes time and that this is for the best. They want instant results, even if they don't realise that these don't last. I'm tired trying to educate people/clients/my boss ;-(
Apologies for the rant!! Just having a bad day...
joined:Sept 20, 2000