A friend in need?

When to give advice

[hannamyluv]

Okay, we all know the internet is like the wild, wild west. Many of us learned on our own and have gotten to where we are by on our own wits sweat. It tends to create a certain pull yourself up by the bootstraps additude.

I have a few friends who have been toying around with websites and, boy, are they way off on it. It would be one thing if they were building personal sites, but they are not. Two (who are print graphic designers) are building sites for their freelance businesses and another one is a programmer who figured that this internet stuff isn't so tough, so he started an affiliate website to hone his internet skills and one day switch to a job in the internet field.

I've bit my tounge so far, mostly because these people think that since they are so good in their regular professions that they are doing a fabulous job on their sites. They are promoting the sites (sometimes by unknowingly sending spam) and well, I am cringing.

These people are planning to showcase their real skills on sites that might end up being a featured site on "web pages that suck". Do I say something, or do I let them muddle through the way many people have for the past 10 years?

[benihana]

perhaps you could casually mention that when you are working on a new site, you always try to get input from peers/pro's who are distant from the project, then send them to one of the bigger forums thats does allow site reviews.

they may have their feelings hurt, but not by you.

[ukgimp]

Without saying they are muppets, or implying it you can help them indirectly why not go for the steering approach.

"have you seen this (some article on what constitutes spam) it might impact you" etc etc

"Have you ever seen what they get up to at CSS zen garden with clean code"

If they are tough skinned you could just tell em. You know whether they are likely to brak down and cry

Good luck

[neo_brown]

Guess it depends on your relationship. Personally I would have told them from the begginging where they were going wrong. Like I said it depends on your relationship. Some people appreciate feedback, especially when it is helpful and will save them time/money/face. Others dont wajnt to hear a d... thing.

[pmkpmk]

Be careful that you don't end up doing all the stuff for them. Helping out once or twice is one thing, but a friendship service can easily turn into an almost full-time obligation. And without being paid too. Which in turn puts a strain on the friendship.

I learned the hard way to say NO and instead helping friends selecting commercial service providers. As a rule, I NEVER offer my professional services to friends. If they are real friends, they accept it.

[pleeker]

I've been in this situation, but more often with relatives and family members than with friends. (The friends seem to be smart enough to bother me from the start!) I always bite my tongue in cases like this and only once has it ever caused a problem -- when one relative wondered angrily "Why didn't you help me?!" To which I replied, "Because you didn't ask."

It's a tough situation, one that you may not win no matter which path you choose. But I say it's best to keep quiet until asked to speak up.

[Lord Majestic]

I dont know what these guys are doing, but it is entirely possible that the product(s) and/or service(s) they want to sell would do very well pretty much regardless how crap site is. Thats right - in my current work field (full time employment for big e-commerce site) I know a number of our competitors who are very successful from financial point of view but who are extremely poor from web design point of view.

It is possible to win so long as you have something unique, which is good value for money. Of course if you just want to try to peddle same stuff as everyone else in a very competitive industry then it might be a job too hard for a newbie.

[vkaryl]

The only time I tried to be helpful in this manner (after an actual "I'm not sure I've got this right, could you look it over and give me some tips?"), I went out of ANYONE'S way to be kind and to offer hints etc., using the "this is lovely, and your html is perfect here, perhaps you could apply the idea in this section as well" sort of thing.

Unfortunately, it backfired anyway. She was first defensive, then just plain upset, then pissed as all get out. And finally she basically told me to take a flying leap, when she wanted my advice she'd ask for it - which of course she already had, but she wasn't really THINKING at that point....

Not going there any more. I thought we were pretty good friends. She hasn't spoken to me since - and that was 3 years ago.

[edited by: vkaryl at 2:37 am (utc) on Aug. 17, 2004]

[ken_b]

This might be good time to mention that we never really know who reads here :)

I uhhh.... have nothing more to say.