Forum Moderators: phranque
I'm guessing you would turn everything over to them upon payment, maybe only keeping a copy on file for future reference but not to sell to another company that could have the same need.
Is this the case?
If so, when a small company has you do some programming for you, and they choke on the price, would you consider knocking say 15-25% to retain resale rights to the code and application you made for them?
As for reselling code and such, this is a big big thing most people overlook.
I just paid $475 through elance for a php application for a site of mine, and I fully plan on recouping some of the cost by reselling it through another site I will make.
And I'm just asking what the 'norm' is.
If the client said "can you write a program to do such and such" then they only have rights to do such and such.
If the client said "can you write a program so that I can resell or distribute it" then they are entitled to resell and distribute the code.
Unless the client specifically asked for a certain use, then they don't have rights in the agreement to use your code for those uses. The default status of all rights is with the author of the work not the client. You always retain all rights on your code other than those expressly stated in the agreement between you and the client.
The exception is if you are in full time empoyment. Then the rights default to your employer (that may be the client or may not be). But only if the work is done as part of your employment, in the employers time or using the empoyers equipement/resourses. (if you do it at home in your spare time without your employer's knowledge then you hav the rights)
These developers refused to allow any SEO (from us) done on the site and the customer was really upset to find out that they didn't own their own site. After all what good is an asp site without the DB or any of the code on the pages, which the developers say they own...
These two companies I've have had dealings with are hiding inside of technical fine print that the customer is paying for the development but doesn't own the code which is really the guts of the site...
These are large developers I'm speaking of and I am also aware of a class action suit being prepared to stop this unscrupulous practice.
From a clients perspective: So who owns the code? Read the fine print and make darn sure you do, or find another web developer.
the new contract should allow you to retain re-use rights for a lower fee paid to you--that figure is up to you to determine.
the new contract should allow the client to own the code as well, in case they want to make changes or whatever.
if you re-use the code in the future, maybe you can style it a bit so it looks a bit different to the user.
if you are not getting your original quoted price then you are entitled to something.
I mean my initial estimate just seems high to them...and it actually seems high to me for what they are getting. But X hours times $Y/hr = Z.
I'm just looking for a way to lower Z for them, but justify it and leave myself a way to recoupe the cost.
By packaging the software and selling it to other possible cients as well.
I'm just curious if standard practice is that I would retain those rights anyhow...or would they normally own the rights to the code?
If you code in ASP or PHP without the client knowing it, then you can always try to make some extra money by replacing the PHP with static HTML and then tell them to pay you extra to make it dynamic. I have done this and people buy it (Pardon the pun).
If the client pays you, then he/she owns the code. If you do it for free, then you own it. That's the way I have been been doing this concept of my web design business.
Not exactly true, if I as a developer were to work freelance on a project for someone then unless there is a written agreement completely transferring the rights to the customer then it is in a grey area. It does not 100% follow that if I design some code and put my client's copyright disclaimer visibly on the page that they own the rights to the design, maybe the content but not everything. Therefore if transferring a project from web designer A to web designer B a written contract should be applied between the client and web designer A and the client and web designer B. Unless this is done, web designer A could have recourse to the client AND web designer B should the original designer's code be modified.
Rincewind
You always retain all rights on your code other than those expressly stated in the agreement between you and the client.
Exactly!
I am not an attorney nor a legal advisor, please seek legal representation before deciding or enacting on any form of legal recourse
If the client pays you, then he/she owns the code.
And if you buy Microsoft Windows, you own the code? Well, that isn't true, because if you try and find the source code on the internet and Uncle Bill from Uncle Sam finds out, then you will be prosecuted. Even if you own the product orignal product.
All rights belong to the programmer (or programming company) to the code unless specified otherwise. The customer would generally be paying for use of the code, not an entitlement to modify or resell the code.
I'm just looking for a way to lower Z for them, but justify it and leave myself a way to recoupe the cost.By packaging the software and selling it to other possible cients as well.
Well, unless the customer asked that the code is his exclusivly, you can sell modified copies of the code to other people. The up shot of this is that, if you are willing to take the risk, you could reduce the cost to your client because they will now share the development costs with several other people. So if you sell on the code to 10 other people, you only need to charge your customer for Z/10+profit. This should make the price more agreable to the customer. But you do take on the risk that you charge Z/10 but only actually sell 5. In which case you could be out of pocket so do some research first.
There are no "Grey" areas here. The rights are the authors and devolved as per agreement. So the clients rights are always as per the agreement. Always get such agreements writen down. That way nobody has any disputes later.
if you do it at home in your spare time without your employer's knowledge then you have the rights
Unless the law has changed recently, I don't think this is an automatic right in the UK. I worked for several large corporations and in each case any engineering patent taken out by an employee (even if non-work related) became the property of the employer. This was part of the employer's terms of service. Although I did not work in software design, I am sure this would have applied to any intellectual property.
I can also remember a situation where a software consultant called in for a few weeks work, was given an extremely hard time by corporate security for attempting to take his code off the premises in the form of a tape.
In the UK we tend to have very strong property laws, but fewer laws protecting individual freedoms.
This was part of the employer's terms of service
I worked for several large corporations and in each case any engineering patent taken out by an employee (even if non-work related) became the property of the employer. This was part of the employer's terms of service. Although I did not work in software design, I am sure this would have applied to any intellectual property.
Any permanent job that I had in the UK had these terms applied in the employment contract. I guess in a way it protects them from reduced employee productivity due to late night coding sessions :)
Most employers don't have such clauses in the terms of employment
I was refering to major telecommunications companies who impose the same terms and conditions on software design engineers as they have since time immemorial on hardware design engineers. It was intended to prevent someone having a bright idea related to his field of design, keeping it to himself and patenting it. Relatively easy to enforce for hardware design, but possibly difficult for software.
Perhaps we should ask GG what's in his contract. :)
