Forum Moderators: phranque
However - I like frames, they make a site look good with the headers and navigation staying put ( I don't really like DHTML methods of doing this, looks a bit gimmicky to me) and downloading times are reduced as Heading information and Navigation information can be put into two different frame files and only need to be downloaded once into cache.
I'm due to start a new large site soon and I'm planning the following:-
Instead of just using one frameset for the whole site, use a different frameset for each information frame file. This has the advantage of a different URL in the address bar being available for each page so Bookmarking is not a problem.
The 'Header' and 'navigation' fames will always be the same file
This sort of creates a 'Client Side Includes' for want of a better description.
Each frameset can duplicate the main information frame file Descriptions and Keywords Meta tags.
Into each information frame file, I'll put links which will enable the viewer to reload the frame into it's frameset if the single information frame is found by Search Engines.
A link can also be added to allow the information frame to 'break free' of it's frameset for printing of info only purposes.
I'll use the 'noframes' tag in the framesets to point a link at an all encompassing Site Map so robots should be able to crawl the site, could also point at the associated information frame, also repeat some key text from the information frame in the 'noframes' area.
Slight disadvantage is that as each frameset loads, the on screen display dissapears for a brief moment as the new frameset file loads - this doesn't happen with normal solitary frameset use. However Framset files are not very big so it doesn't take long and of course the Header and Navigation frame files reappear straight away when the framset has loaded. However if frames were not used, the time taken for a new page to start to appear would be a lot longer than this (I'm thinking 56K modems here).
I'd be grateful for comments on this, am I giving frames a new lease of life or am I committing a great folly - and any thoughts about any accessibility issues (screen readers) with frames, important for this new site, would be very welcome.
Many thanks - Kind regards.
Into each information frame file, I'll put links which will enable the viewer to reload the frame into it's frameset if the single information frame is found by Search Engines.A link can also be added to allow the information frame to 'break free' of it's frameset for printing of info only purposes.
I would say a good chunk of the web surfers out there are going to have no clue what to do with a link that offers to 'break them free' of a frame. Also, if this same surfer lands on one of your info pages from a search engine, are they really going to take the time to look around for a link that reloads a frameset for them? Doubtful.
Just playing devil's advocate here, will be interesting to see what kind of response you get from this one! :)
Thanks for your thoughts. But surely the advantages of reducing download times are worth pursuing. If I do use frames and don't wish to exceed say 40K download for each page and if the frameset is say 1K, I can use 39K in the information frame file. If my 'header' and 'navigation' frame files are say another 6K, that's 6K less I can use in my information frame.
I don't there would be a real problem with extra design time, once templates have been set up and furious fingers cutting and pasting.
I meant to say that if the content of the header and navigation info was 6K and frames were not used, then I have 6K less available for the new information.
I'd be grateful for comments on this, am I giving frames a new lease of life or am I committing a great folly
Frames don't have to be bad if used right and it sounds like you're thinking it out well, shouldn't have too many hassles.
One big advantage of frames that people often overlook is that it enables you to 1)Keep your page size down and 2)Tightly focus the page topic without navigation and other clutter. It's really a win win as far as SEs are concerned and, once the framset is loaded visitors like the speed with which subsequent pages load, another win.
Go for it and good luck.
Go for it and good luck.
Great - just the encouragement I need.
To cater for the point raised by Balinor about search engines finding the information frame and not the frameset and the problem faced by the viewer in loading the frameset, I guess I could put in 'Robots - noindex' (but not 'nofollow') meta tags into the information frame and encourage the bots to find the frameset only by reproducing extracted important descriptive text in the 'no frames' tags.
This means that I can load up the navigation frame file with Milonic DHTML or similar bandwidth hugging navigation code without reducing overall download time of the new information.
Simple small font size text link navigation could be added at the base of each information frame (desirable for accessibility issues anyway) - this would link to framesets so anybody arriving just on the info frame if the SEs did pick them up would be able to get into the frameset mode if they chose to onward link in the site.
For printing off of the information frame and not the navigation and header - well maybe I'll have to compromise and not offer this. The end result will be no worse than if the site was not framed.
Any thoughts on accessibility issues and reading software for visually impaired when using frames?
I think I'll go for it. A bright new future for frames!
Many thanks all.
After about a year, the new (unframed) site was published and it has to be said it features higher in the SERPS although how much was due to structure and how much to change of content etc will never be known.
Also I would consider 3 years ago in SEO terms to be no reliable guide for todays algorithms but who knows maybeeeeeeeeeeeee.
