Forum Moderators: phranque
The discussion got onto the differences between "shop" sites and resource sites as they relate to google and then touched on how they should be financed. I would like to push this a little further.
Business sites obviously earn an income from the sales they generate. All non sales content is there simply to drive people to the site and keep them there long enough to spend money ( nothing wrong with that )
Resource sites on the other hand ( and I am talking about information sites, hobby sites etc ) are there solely for the sake of their content. Content really is all important. Which raises the question of how these sites pay for themselves....
Advertising is one way of course, but it puts visitors off and means the webmaster is spending to much time chasing income and not enough time writing the content.
We, as resource centre webmasters need to be looking at ways of persuading the public that information is no different to any other product. If they want to read it, which they obviously do, IT NEEDS TO BE PAID FOR. Or at least the webmasters time needs to be paid for.
We need to look at ways of getting the public to accept membership sites more readily. Everyone seems to agree, or accept, that this is the way the web will go but we need to steer it not just let it stumble in that direction.
On a similar note, we also need to look at how membership resource sites relate to the search engines. Information in "Visitor areas" or "free" parts of the site being the only content that will get spidered.
I dont know the answers to these questions, I dont even know if any of you think they are important, but I would like to see a discussion flow.
1. Your LP rating and site position for keywords, associated with the main page, will hardly be altered by transfer to membership resource.
2. Position for keywords associated with member pages can be hampered, but there's always an option to open member pages for spiders. Just be sure that only the spiders that do not cache the page content a let into the member zone.
I find it VERY hard to even break even. And I have a one-man site- no staff or anything.
I tried going the non-profit route- tax deductible memberships and such. Nada there for me so far.
I cannot see holding "some" info back for only paying customers...
I am very interested in "alternative" revenue sources and creative ways to try and get some money- just to pay my ISP!
dave
Carfac
I may end up in that position myself.... I have been asking for "signals of interest" and pre-registrations on my site and the idea seems to be being picked up by a few people, slowly, It looks like it might provide a living If I keep at it but who can tell if these people will actually do it when the time comes.
I think it might depend on what your site is about and who the potential readers are. My site is an information resource for "antique" widgets ( I never realized widgets were so popular until I found this site.... What the hell are they? ( lol) )My site gets visited by collectors of these antique widgets and by lots of ebay sellers who are looking for information for their auction listings. My readership is definately from an older section of society ( that dreaded term silver Surfers )
But membership sites being hard to fly is what we need to look at. if we come together with ideas and perhaps strategies maybe we have the ability to shape a little part of the www future.
Personally, I dislike membership sites, even if they charge nothing. Generally they require a big sign-in hassle, asking for loads of extraneous information that I don't want to give them, which I fear they will use to bombard me with ads. Then I find only a few pages of useful content.
I wonder about micropayments. If small enough, they would still be reasonable. Most of the technology exists already. All over the world, specialized companies excell in billing their clients for micropayments; they're called telephone companies. Hook up rural phone companies (which could use the business) and the web, and micropayments might become feasible. But they would have to be very micro, or people in countries with poor exchange rates couldn't afford content from elsewhere.
In the meantime, we are pursuing several possibilities for generating revenue, none of which will charge users of our website directly. Revenue will come from ads (on a local community site), software sales and support, seminars, grants... I would love to hear success stories, as we are just starting this phase.
There is always a privacy statement to say that we will not pass on the email address or use it for our own ends .
This is going to sound crass because I cannot think of a nicer way of saying it. but if people want information they have two choises. They can buy a book, which will prevent static, non changing information, or they can come to a web site which grows, changes, and can keep up to date. They happily pay for one, sometimes quite large amounts if the subjwect is a niche one. Why do they feel so reluctant to pay for the other.
To answer my own question, I am not sure that they do ( feel reluctant that is ) I suspect that we just haven't found the right presentation yet.
I, too, love the micropayments idea. I would do that here, and I would think it would do well on my current site- allowing mne to drop the ads!
As I see it, we do not have too many options:
1) Membership Fees
2) Ads
3) Affiliate Sales
4) Grants/Donations
5) Micropayments
I would really like to explore the 5th option! Anyone know how?
Wilma- would be interested in talking grants with you...
dave
My partner and I are have office, a chief editor for the content (business news) someone to answer the phone and two representatives
The site is offering for free all contents (to any viewers) but our range of offerings to businesses
We do have indeed to sale business membership at a rate of $144 yearly
We include in the membership so many services that it is too long to mention!
Plus it works for I am available 24/24 and my clients know that I can be called even Sundays, I made it that way and it is part of being service oriented
What make us different is that aside web dev my partner is a consultant in start up and tax and accounting
We also help our clients in marketing and straightening their business up
Funny! When reading my prose the whole package seems impressive
Not at all, it is a permanent fight and only the result of people that highly value their occupation
Content: should it be free? I like to say YES
But other survices targeting users interested in your content should be appealing enough to trigger sales in support of the content
conclusion: How do one find services valuable enough to be sold to users? the answer is the key to free content
Regards
Henry
However, information only sites have a HUGE positive, that can, if applied correctly, make a nice piece of change (not by selling memberships, or anything else, on the site) :-)
Sorry, I do not know how to "Quote" on this board.
Catch2948
It sounds as if you have some sort of an answer. What exactly do you mean?
regards
I have been considering approaching a non-profit organization to be a "sponsor" of the site, but haven't taken the time to get that together yet (probably this summer).
The big question is how do we persuade people that membership is godd....
To John_Caius: Can you please clarify what exactly do you mead under "generic banner ads"? Without such a clarification your latest post seems controversial to say the least :)
I was not advocating a "build it and they will come" scenario I was, and still am, looking for ways, ideas, thoughts, on how to persuade people to join.
It is obviously a two edged sword. There has to be the content there to attract them. they have to want what is in the members area, I am not sure how to take them that extra mile and get them to join though.
I run an information site thatīs starting to cost more and more as I have upgrade the hosting package.
I couldnt justify a subscription fee as our users by their very nature dont have the money to spend. Anyway I wouldnt feel comfortable about charging for the content that I intended to be free.
Reading this thread, Ive started to consider a dontate option, but I cant see it bringing in much revenue.
What I considered before was to create a unique section for affiliate programmes. A kind of shop section.
This would add more depth to the site and hopefully generate income while not adding advertising to the rest of the site.
Scott
Also the site doesnīt get a lot of repeat visits due to the subject area, so a subscription based scheme wouldnt work (for me).
(generally, people come to the site for advice, and when they get it, they usually dont need any more).
Agreed $5 a month is reasonable, but offering the value to visitors is difficult. How many sites would you pay $5 a month to use? How many of those could you get the information elsewhere for free?
But, for a lot of industries and sites, memberships are very good - itīs just that for others they arent appropriate for the users.
Scott
These days a monthly newsletter just doesnt cut it.
People need access to good quality information, resources, services, discounts, etc that they just cant get elsewhere.
Scott
We need to look at ways of getting the public to accept membership sites more readily. Everyone seems to agree, or accept, that this is the way the web will go... - Perplexed
Well I do not agree.
Thousands upon thousands of "resossurce" sites are on the web. Just how many memberships will a user pay for? I know that I do/will not pay for membership at any site, there are just too many other resources available for free.
I also run a "resource" type website which is hybrid with commercial interests in that pertinent books, research materials, audio products, etc are offered along with the abundant free content. This is available to all users, any time without charging for any membership. Traffic continues to rise, along with sales.
I don't think you should need to go to paid membership, it's as much a hassle collecting as it would be getting advertisers.
MarketingGuy has the right idea, a limited section for affiliates *of some kind*
You have what some people would really like to gain benefit from: a content site. If you team with the right people you can get good rankings and distribute a little of your PR, and some of your cachet, to places you approve.
Alternately, or as well, if you have ebay users coming to your site for information (which I take to mean something like expert guidance), then could you not organize the willing ones from your user base into voluntary effort to create some content that *is* of a specific commercial use to somebody?
Spin off some commercial value, do it consciously and well, instead of letting commerce saturate your whole site, or the lack of commerce drive you under.
just a thought
Keyplyr and RossH, You raise some interesting points. Possibly I should be looking for a middle road.
It is worth noting that I am still in the early stages of this, I have not yet opened the site to membership but I do discuss it on the site and I have a list of prospective members whose income would more than cover my expenses in running the site itself ( assuming they did actually join as they say they will )
However, this site is going to become huge and it needs to be a full time job to do it justice ( and keep up the flow of complimentary emails I get which does my ego the world of good ) That means it has to generate an income, not just expences.
There are thousands of content sites out there and you're right, they cannot all go PFC ( Pay For Content )but my site is in a suitable niche that could get away with it ( I think ) and I would not be exagerating TO much if I said that mine is the only site of its type on the web ( You could probably argue about that but honestly if I search for other sites that do what I do I cannot find any )
The point about selling books and research material is an interesting one. Good books and what have you are damned expensive, out of print, and hard to find ( that is why my site is beginning to get interesting to people I guess )plus, the information they contain is static, ie, not updating to modern values etc. There may be a possibility there for producing an annual CD or something. I will have to think about that.
I have to say, I love this site. It is the only place I have found where you can have this sort of intelligent ( I hope ) conversation. Great Stuff.
