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backup DNS & SE penalty

do SEs penalize backup DNS?

         

CdCardMain

1:54 pm on Aug 28, 2002 (gmt 0)



I am planning to host my sites on two independent hosts and change my DNS info to ns1.primaryhost.com and ns2.otherHost.com. This way, if the ns1. host fails then ns2. host can be redirected automatically. Is this plan going to work? How about the SEs? Do they penalize the site that has same contents on two different hosts? It's just one domain hosted on two independent hosting companies for backup purpose. I know Google cash IPs but I am not sure if they cash secondary IPs also. If they do, do they crawl secondary web sites and penalize if the contents are the same? You masters, could you please give some advice?

jdMorgan

8:03 pm on Aug 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



CdCardMain,

Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

I have no inside knowledge of search engine policy, but penalizing a site because it happens to have a backup server would be ridiculous. You have only one domain name and therefore, even though the content on each server is duplicated, it is not duplicated across multiple domains. Search engines see duplicate content on multiple domains as spam - an attempt to appear multiple times in search results for the same search. This is not useful to the search engine user, so it is penalized. But since search engines list Web pages by domain and not by IP address, your duplicate servers don't waste any space in the search results - only one URL is visible.

You might want to post this question in the Google forum in case I'm wrong. If so, Googleguy can correct me - or will gather his staff and go fix the problem.

Another thing you might want to do is to go check the domain registration for some big sites like Amazon.com, ebay, etc. I'll bet they have backup servers!

Jim

amoore

10:11 pm on Aug 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Wait a minute.

The first part sounds like you're using a backup nameserver. No problem, and a good idea. Both nameservers serve the same information (namely that your domain name should point to some specific IP address). When the first nameserver fails, the second will serve the information (and the IP address of your site remains the same).

This will not cause traffic for your domain to go to the webspace on your other host (sine it is at a different IP address). Google will of course not penalize you for using two nameservers that serve the same information.

Are you suggesting that your secondary nameserver will serve a different IP address than your primary? This would work under the theory that if your primary hosting provider fails in some way then both their nameserver and webserver fail, and that there is no time that your primary webserver fails and the primary nameserver continues to serve the original IP address. (or at least that you're OK with that scenerio.) In fact, I see that occur more often. Webservers fail far more often than nameservers, probably just because people are always mucking with them. Not only that, but DNS based backups have to deal with the fact that resolvers may be looking to caching nameservers which have cached old DNS information for your site so the switch-over may not be as quick as you expect.

Now, you should know that this discussion of primary and secondary nameservers is rather flawed anyway since nameservers are not ordered. A resolver is allowed to query the authoritative nameservers in any order, so you would expect that under normal operating conditions that you get traffic to both of your nameservers. If they are giving different IP addresses, then you would expect to get traffic at both webservers.

Sound good because it balances traffic? Well, do you keep any kind of state on your webserver such as a shopping cart? What happens when one user's session gets split between two different webservers? Will your second webserver know all of the contents of their shopping cart just based on the cookies and such? I hope not.

You can certainly use two hosts and two nameservers to provide backup, redundancy, and load sharing, but it's a surprisingly complex subject.

ggrot

12:44 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you run both servers (ie: dedicated dealie), you can make the machines into their own DNS servers (my opnion - i've never tried it), and thus if one DNS goes out, obviously the corresponding DNS dies too. Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of having requests sent around randomly. And having the DNS servers change ips on the fly sucks too, because most ISPs cache DNS settings for 12-24 hours. Some as much as 48 hours. I find this to be a major pain, but it happens.

ggrot

12:45 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Also, wouldn't it be much cheaper and far simpler just to get 1 good server?