Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Witchcraft tax-break

         

bobothecat

3:28 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)



Dutch witches were guaranteed a financial treat when the Leeuwarden District Court reaffirmed their legal right to write off the costs of schooling — including in witchcraft — against their tax bills. Those costs run to thousands of dollars.

[msnbc.msn.com...]

ronin

4:44 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



There is some justice in the world.

Now what about a public apology and some state compensation for all those stake burnings a couple of centuries back?

digitalghost

5:16 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's been interesting to watch advocacy groups and official orgs deal with the rise of neo-paganism and Wicca. U.S. military classifies Wicca as a "natural religion" and the IRS was forced to grant neo-pagan churches non-profit status.

Ante-Buckland witches never sought official recognition in any sort of organized fashion, they were more interested in relief from persecution and realization that witches aren't satanists. (many still equate witchcraft with devil worship)

In the U.S. I don't expect to see any effort made to apologize for the persecution of witches any more than I expect to see old Native American treaties made good. ;)

Saw a humorous bumper sticker the other day,

Witch Parking Only. All Others Will Be Toad

jsinger

5:41 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



In the U.S. I don't expect to see any effort made to apologize for the persecution of witches

Actually the Salem "witches" got the best and fairest trials the 17th century could offer. Plenty of "expert" witnesses were brought in to testify. Complete records and transscript exist. The system worked (for all but the 20 executed)

----------
What evil spirit have you familiarity with?
None.

Have you made no contract with the devil?
No.

Why do you hurt these children?
I do not hurt them. I scorn it.

Who do you imploy then to do it?
I imploy no body.

What creature do you imploy then?
No creature. I am falsely accused

digitalghost

6:02 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think the Salem witch trials offered insight into a system that didn't work. Fear, mass hysteria, greed and ignorance working together perfectly. Shortly after the hysteria died down laws were enacted to ensure that similar atrocities wouldn't happen in the future.

Given the patriarchal nature of the malleus maleficarum and other texts used to detect 'witches' it is not so surprising that sexually frustrated Puritans could find so many 'witches' in such a small female population.

The 'system' might have worked as you said, much like the Inquisition 'worked'. ;)

jsinger

6:59 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"Bounty hunters" were eventually employed to detect witches among the population. Needless to say, when people are paid to find evil, they find lots of evil. A lesson still.

httpwebwitch

8:13 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



wasn't there in fact an apology recently by one of the presidents? Clinton? a symbolic post-mortem aquittal to the descendants of Rebecca Nurse?

Something about that triggers a memory but I can't find the original news story.

httpwebwitch

8:26 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That stuff happening in Netherlands is interesting, but I doubt we'd see that kind of acceptance here within my lifetime. Legal status and social acceptance are worlds apart.

If the subject interests you, the new book "Judge Sewall's Apology" shows an interesting and refreshing perspective - a judge who had sufficient integrity to publish a regretful apology for the Salem hangings.

And by the way, legal status is misleading, no, the persecution has not ended. People aren't being pressed to death by Puritans any more, but you do get the odd brick thrown through a window, or some cowardly fundamentalist grafitti, and more subtle varieties of discrimination from the vague public - enough so that being "in the broom closet" is a common phrase...

jsinger

8:55 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



In the U.S., religious training of any kind isn't tax deductible.
--
Why should the U.S. apologize for something an extinct religion in the English Colony of Massachusetts did in the 1690s? Next we'll be apologizing for Indian or Viking atrocities that occurred here 1,000 years ago.

And how would we remedy that ancient injustice: Affirmative action for Puritans? 40 acres and a mule and some buckled shoes?

httpwebwitch

9:26 pm on Oct 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I agree - witchcraft trials in New England did not happen in the USA. the USA didn't exist.

Still, apologies can have political ends:

In 1997 President Clinton took it upon himself to apologise for the Tuskegee Syphilis Study ... By his apology, a quarter of a century after this disgraceful betrayal of medical ethics came to light, Clinton neatly identified himself with the victims rather than the authorities who had perpetrated it

The Truth and Reconciliation Committee of South Africa has demonstrated in more recent times how admission of past crimes and injustices enables a society to move on.

source [hnn.us]

Judge Sewall's apology was timely, appropriate, and personal, since he was actually one of the judges in the trials. None of the other Salem judges followed suit.

closure?

in 1711 the Massachusetts legislature voted to financially compensate the affected families for "damages sustained by sundry persons prosecuted for witchcraft in the year 1692."

January 15, 1697, was designated a day of repentance and the legislature annulled all the the convictions, and in 1711, Massachusetts made restitutions to the victim's families

I think any further attempts to extract more remorse is beating a dead Puritan horse.

I digress into history too easily.

On topic, the Netherlands strikes me as being a very progressive society. Maybe acceptance of Wicca in North America will evolve along with wind farms and controlled drug addiction programs.

Essex_boy

6:39 am on Nov 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Ronin: A memorial to 'witches' that died while held in Colchester castle is in the process of being erected in the town.

So after all years some justice will be done.