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Not quite as bad as telling a nurseho ho , that reminds me - off topic - you know those pendant alarm things they give old people ... the software company I worked for got a report writing gig at one of these alarm companies, I was the only one old enough have used this early 1990 DOS database system. day one - can I test on the backup server - um no we don't have one. One hour later..opps crashed the system. No worries we will reboot.