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Who's paranoid?

The google tinfoil hat brigade.

         

wheel

3:56 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm not paranoid. I've just decided there's no need for a third party of any kind to have easy access to my business data. So while I won't go out of my way necessarily to prevent collection, I won't go out of my way to allow collection, particularly by using trojan horse data collection methods.

I:
- do not use gmail
- do not use google analytics
- do not use webmaster tools
or any other free service that google offers.

Am I alone on this? I know half the world is on google analytics and it seems GWT's is pretty common as well. Are you using this stuff?

Samizdata

4:12 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



In the interests of fairness you might add:

Microsoft webmaster tools and mail
Yahoo webmaster tools and mail
FaceBook
etc
etc


...

zeus

4:19 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



wheel - I also dont use any google stuff or a member of any of the big social networks, still have success in this business.

BillyS

4:21 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I use:

Analytics
GWT
Adsense
Feedburner
Voice
Alerts
Local Business Center

Swanny007

5:02 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I use many GORG products although I'm trying to get off nearly everything. IMHO GWT doesn't actually "spy" on your site like Analytics so I see GWT as doing more good than bad. I did use GMail for nearly 3 years but I'm off that now. I just need to figure out a way to pull all the email from there into a local file/account and then delete everything left there. I still think GORG is overall good at search, but they get maybe 1 in 10 searches from me now. Unfortunately (?) they have the best contextual ad system (AdSense), I'll stick with them for now but hopefully some day I can decrease my dependency on that product.

However I'm not paranoid but I do feel Google cares more about collecting every shred of data than they do about privacy and transparency. I feel like they're getting a bit too arrogant for their own good. It's funny because whenever I talk to GORG folk in person they do seem to genuinely trying to do good but when I visit forums like this it really changes my perception. In person it's easy for them to convince me that they're making my life easier on the 'net but when you look at the "big picture" of what GORG is doing it does make me wonder....

To me GWT is just giving you info they already have, what is the harm done in using that? All you do is verify your site ownership and they give you data. This is data that they have regardless of whether you have a GWT account.

Rather than "what I use", let's look at "what they know" about me:
- My name (first/last)
- My home address
- My cellular telephone number
- My bank account info (AdSense EFT)
- The websites I own and operate (former Analytics data)
- All my email for 3 years (GMail)
- Who my 1,004 contacts are from GMail
- My credit card information (from Google Checkout)
- My web history
- My ad-clicking history on GORG.com or sites running AdSense
- My interests and hobbies (based on sites I visit with a GORG product - Analytics, etc.)
- What YouTube videos I like to watch
- What my house looks like (Google Maps Street View)
- What vehicles are in my driveway (Google Maps Street View)

Oh.... maybe I should be more paranoid....

grandpa

6:23 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Oh.... maybe I should be more paranoid....
Won't it be nice, though, when next time you lose your keys you have a friend to call on who knows where they are.

I use GWT and Analytics on every site, and GMail has me saying things like, "Spam?, what spam?"

Not mentioned was the information collected by various govt agencies, and it appears that G and Big B are very cozy right now. That is what I consider scary.

blend27

6:50 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Swanny007 you forgot all your email that was sent to your friends/bussines that have GMAIL accounts after you got your own email hosted.

parts of the hosts file:

....
127.0.0.1 ssl.google-analytics.com
127.0.0.1 pagead2.googlesyndication.com
127.0.0.1 doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 pubads.g.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 fls.doubleclick.net

....

Just looked on the homepage of CHASE Bank, view source, all the way down ...

 [size=2] document.write("<iframe src='https://fls.[b]doubleclick[/b].net/activityi;src=1234567;type=chckeNN;cat=chaseNNN;ord=1;num=" + a + "?'[b] width='1' height='1'[/b] frameborder='0'></iframe>"); [/size]


So they even know how ofte ONE is checking their online accout balance.

zeus

6:52 pm on Feb 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Swanny007 - year they are little like the new series V from the USA, a very nice face to the outside, but on the inside evil.

graeme_p

7:02 am on Feb 15, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Thay know less about me, and most of what they know


- My name (first/last)
- My home address
- My cellular telephone number

Anyone you do business with has these.


- My bank account info (AdSense EFT)

No ETF here. Again, this is not unusual info to give people. The other ad network I use has all this.

- The websites I own and operate (former Analytics data)

Google knows about one of my websites from Analytics and that and another through Webmaster tools. The site that uses analytics also uses Adsense so Google could gather that info anyway. No analytics or webmaster tools for the rest. They both have my name prominently on them so that is not secret. My ownership of all my domains publicly available if you do a whois search.

- All my email for 3 years (GMail)
- Who my 1,004 contacts are from GMail

The have some of my email from which they can harvest contacts. My main worry is that they may have backups of deleted sent mails because I use Google SMTP. Short of running a mail server myself, someone will have this. In any case most of my email goes to Britain where the recipients ISP is obliged to keep a record of the to/from addresses for the government.

- My credit card information (from Google Checkout)

They have one of my credit card numbers, and a history of one transaction

- My web history
- My ad-clicking history on GORG.com or sites running AdSens
- My interests and hobbies (based on sites I visit with a GORG product - Analytics, etc.)
- What YouTube videos I like to watch

Unless they are tracking by IP (so they see my logins come from the same IP as my searches) they do not have this.

- What my house looks like (Google Maps Street View)
- What vehicles are in my driveway (Google Maps Street View)

No street view here. In any case is what your house looks like from the outside private?

Now go through that list and see how much of the the government can know/ easily access (especially if you live in the EU). Add income (from tax forms) ownership of property, employment history, and possibly other assets, phone numbers and what phone calls you make or receive (varies from country to country, definitely recorded in the EU), info from social networking websites (I know my government monitors FB and Twitter), possibly some mobile phone location info, where your kids go to school, what car you own, when you bought it, etc., when you have left and entered the country, spending patterns and location info (from bank records)....

There is no opt out, and they can easily gather more. Who are you more frightened of?

zeus

12:01 pm on Feb 15, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That is all collected by 1 Company thats a big danger just there, where other companies store your private info and is kept there, google combine,collect and spread your info over there network.

graeme_p

7:47 am on Feb 16, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



What do you mean Google "spread your info"? There are other companies that know more (my bank, for example).

ISPs know more about what you do on the internet, and have your name, address, and some financial details. Hosting providers know more about your websites. If your ISP is your telco, and also your hosting provider, they know far more than Google.

The government knows far more still, and may share it with others, such as foreign governments (note the government argument about intelligence sharing with the US in the current UK torture case).

You can easily control what Google knows. With the possible exception of my sent email, Google know no more about me than I am comfortable with.

zeus

10:47 am on Feb 16, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



well I think we can discuss this forever, but if you use there tools, search, mobile stuff, I say they to much, if I knew they just packed in a box and thats it and when I quiet using there stuff they deleted it it would be ok, but thats not the case.

Even a german minister says that they know more then any agency, but as said we could keep on like this.

piatkow

11:06 am on Feb 16, 2010 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month




My bank account info

Printed on every cheque that you have ever written.