Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.198.106.21

Forum Moderators: not2easy

Featured Home Page Discussion

Germany passes #NetzDG law illegal content must be deleted in 24hrs

or face fines of up to 50m euros

     
10:16 am on Jun 30, 2017 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 5, 2004
posts:245
votes: 15


From October, Facebook, YouTube, and other sites with more that two million users in Germany must take down posts containing hate speech or other criminal material within 24 hours.

Social media companies in Germany face fines of up to 50m euros ($57.1; £43.9m) if they fail to remove "obviously illegal" content in time.

Content that is not obviously unlawful must be assessed within seven days.

[bbc.co.uk...]
3:11 pm on June 30, 2017 (gmt 0)

Administrator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:May 9, 2000
posts:24375
votes: 556


That's going to be tough to manage in such short notice!
10:01 pm on June 30, 2017 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 4, 2005
posts:277
votes: 56


High time. Many web corporations, notably American, are not good global citizens and persistently behave below moral and legal expectations. If they are unwilling/unable to self-regulate, they will face the music.

Expect more to come.
High time too.

.
12:50 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:8995
votes: 409


I'm sure that enormous $57 fine will cripple Facebook :)
12:58 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:13841
votes: 485


Well, if it's $57m per event it could add up.

Idle query: What happens when two countries have mutually exclusive laws?
2:24 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 29, 2005
posts:7661
votes: 521


Do you have to have 2 million eyeballs to qualify for this ruling, or can the small fry ignore it?
2:25 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:8995
votes: 409


Well, if it's $57m per event it could add up
Nonstop posted "$57.1" (no "m") hence my post.
2:41 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 29, 2005
posts:7661
votes: 521


followed by a pound number in mill... Seemed obvious, keyplyr....
2:57 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:8995
votes: 409


That's the point Tangor and the source of the humor.
3:05 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 29, 2005
posts:7661
votes: 521


Hmmm.... okay. :) (the rest of us saw millions, you saw 57 bucks)
3:45 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:8995
votes: 409


No Tangor, again... it was humor. In the future I'll be sure to add the "jk."
4:11 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 29, 2005
posts:7661
votes: 521


Golly gee... did you not see the :) ?

Nothing personal, just more fun!
4:53 am on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:13841
votes: 485


Nonstop posted "$57.1" (no "m") hence my post.

Heh, I just assumed you were saying that $57.1m would be peanuts for FB.

:: shuffling papers ::

That makes two consecutive threads which put me in mind of this [xkcd.com].
2:12 pm on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member from GB 

5+ Year Member

joined:Sept 29, 2009
posts:472
votes: 30


If there was any real sense to this new law, the last 7 posts of this thread would be flagged for deletion too.
9:50 pm on July 1, 2017 (gmt 0)

Moderator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator mack is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 15, 2001
posts:7655
votes: 29


So, how are they going to prove a service had 2 000 000 users from within Germany?

I agree with the law in principle, but time scale and the fine do seem a bit "out there".

Mack.
4:32 pm on July 2, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 30, 2002
posts: 2602
votes: 89


So, how are they going to prove a service had 2 000 000 users from within Germany?

Big companies like Facebook tend to release press releases about how well they are doing and how many users they have in each country. They wouldn't be lying, would they? :) It looks like mad legislation by politicians who can barely turn on their iPhones.

Regards...jmcc
7:40 pm on July 2, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:13841
votes: 485


Ooh, good one. “We will stipulate that the defendant’s claims about usage levels are accurate” (even though for other purposes we wouldn’t believe them for a minute).
10:14 am on July 3, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 11, 2008
posts:1434
votes: 154


Yey, a judgement I can fully endorse! Sensible user requirements to limit it to big players, and sensible policy regarding dealing with infringements - time-limited removal, rather than ensuring it is never published.

It is frankly disgusting that tech companies can look, walk and quack like a publisher, but not be bound by the laws governing publishers. These giants have wider reach and more influence than paper publishers, yet claim they are like cable companies; merely a conduit. It is about time laws caught up with reality.
7:26 am on July 4, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from CA 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:June 18, 2005
posts:1775
votes: 37


Shaddows, there's a difference between content written by employees with editorial reviews and user generated content at a huge scale. The latter is a recent phenomena in the media world, and the only way to supervise is with the help of other users flagging troublesome content.
7:50 am on July 4, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 11, 2008
posts:1434
votes: 154


the only way to supervise is with the help of other users flagging troublesome content.
Absolutely!

The law has to be sensible. Editorial process means paper publishers are required to never publish anything they are not prepared to defend in court. Once it is published, they are liable. Although the offended party may allow a withdrawal and apology, they are not obliged to do so, and can pursue any legal remedy available, including fines or imprisonment.

New Media does not have an editorial process as such, so the law governing them needs to be reasonable, and enforceable. Requiring them to comply with the same legal standards with regards to content, but making it contingent on it being reported and allowing a short time to act, is exactly the proportionate response that I feel is appropriate.

Yes, it will cost money. They will have to build the cost into their business model, just like any other business does with any other regulatory cost. Good stuff.
12:00 pm on July 4, 2017 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 5, 2004
posts:245
votes: 15


the only way to supervise is with the help of other users flagging troublesome content.


it shouldn't be up to the users to work for free to keep the platform clean so these companies can make billions.

and relying on users is also flawed because the hate speech may only be seen by it's supporters, and so never flagged.

these companies need to take responsibility for the great power that they have.

with great power....comes great responsibility
2:07 pm on July 8, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

joined:July 29, 2007
posts:1780
votes: 100


This is also censorship, the language surrounding who ultimately decides that a story is fake or not is ambiguous at best. These new laws are obviously designed to guide major social networks and not targeted at small websites, unless those sites are deemed "alt-right" at this point. Germany previously published a hit list of "fake" sites and it was plain to see how wildly subjective the list really was.
2:32 am on July 9, 2017 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

joined:Jan 30, 2006
posts:1696
votes: 15


youtube and facebook should pull out of Germany. Europe doesn't have free speech, let them police it, if they don't want to leave.
 

Join The Conversation

Moderators and Top Contributors

Hot Threads This Week

Featured Threads

Free SEO Tools

Hire Expert Members