France #2 [continued]

11 search engines, 8 directories

[rencke]

This is the continuation of France discussion #1 [webmasterworld.com]

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France
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): fr
Online population: 9,0 million (July 2000)
Native language(s): French
Understanding of English: Low
Hosts in domain: 1.161.000 (April 2001)
Pages in language: 18.7 million (April 2001, all domains)
Pages in domain: 7.13 million (April 2001, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Yes
Multiple domains allowed: No
Professional help: See bottom of page

Known general search engines:

Altavista France [fr.altavista.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 French sites. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Caloweb [caloweb.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Google
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Excite [excite.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 French sites. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Free.fr [free.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: France's 2nd biggest site. 2,3 mill unique visitors in Nov-00. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Google Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Google France [google.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?Own
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Lycos France [lycos.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: 1 category per site in directory. See also Hotbot France [hotbot.lycos.fr]

Multimania [multimania.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: 6th biggest site in France. 1,9 mill unique visitors in Nov-00 Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Ask Jeeves Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

MSN France [msn.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: 10th biggest site in France. 1,3 mill unique visitors in Nov-00. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Inktomi Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

NetScan [netscan.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Voila [voila.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: 9th biggest site in France. 1,4 mill visitors in Nov-00. Also serving Wanadoo.fr, France's #1 site with 3,4 mill visitors. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Voila.com [voila.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: This is Voila's "Raging Search" type site.

Known general directories:

Chaloop [chaloop.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: 1 Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Ecila [ecila.nomade.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Francité [guide.francite.net]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: 1 Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Lokace [lokace.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Looksmart [looksmart.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: 1 Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: Express submit 159 euros

Nomade.fr [nomade.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: The #3 directory in France (after Yahoo and Voila)[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: 2 Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Sharelook [sharelook.fr]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: 2 Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Spray - see Lycos

Yahoo France [fr.yahoo.com]
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Yahoo France is France's #4 site with 2,0 mill unique visitors in Nov-00 and Yahoo.com the 7th with 1,7 mill visitors. Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: 2 for commercial sites, more for info sites. Search method: Own directory search + Google for web?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Local people who can help with translations and advise:

WebmasterWorld member Goblin does translations into French and Bulgarian. [e-mail]
Other translation services found at www.kevrenn.com

This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.

The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.

Updated 5 June, 2001

Edited by: rencke

[Macguru]

OOps! forgot the URL... Now I am not sure anymore.

[namniboose]

Voila
Language interface: French Traffic volume: 9th biggest site in France. 1,4 mill visitors in Nov-00. Also serving Wanadoo.fr, France's #1 site with 3,4 mill visitors. Local language(s) required: YES Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

[namniboose]

Locace is a French-language directory

[Macguru]

<!-- now a blank page with meta refresh redirect "<META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"CONTENT="0;URL=http: //www.minissimo.com">" Human edited directory that look very slim. Show only 3 snapshots of homepage per SERP with very personal editor's comments for descriptions. Far from standard interface. Uses JSP. Content of "would be" portal seem teen oriented. No go with Opera -->
Chaloop
Language interface: French Traffic volume: Not among top 10 sites in France.[/ Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes No. of categories allowed per site: 1 Search method: Something behind JSP
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: No Other: ?

[Macguru]

I noticed that Lokace sumbmission url is a sub domain of Antisearch.

[lokace.antisearch.net...]

[Macguru]

OOps Netscan came back to life!

[heini]

MacGuru
just did a search for mp3, got 45 results.
France: 2173
There are scores for the listings, going up to more than 5000.
Doesn´t look like an up and going engine...

[Macguru]

>Doesn´t look like an up and going engine...

I believe this is an understatement. :)

I just try to add URL with sub domains, won't take it...

[heini]

T-online´s french daughter, Club-Internet.fr, provides Looksmart listings at the top, then comes Google. Makes me wonder - why don´t they use Fast too?
T-online claims it´s one of the top portal sites in France - Nielsen doesn´t think so. Any info?

[Laurent]

Post:678

T-online claims ... but it's not the top, in France.

The winners are ... : :)
wanadoo.fr
free.fr
Voila.fr
tiscali.fr
multimania.fr
yahoo.fr
(Netvalu november)

[bridge]

Okay, I cannot figure out how to submit to the
multimania.fr search engine.

My French is not great, but I did successfully
submit to yahoo.fr, voila.fr (directory and
search engine), google.fr, lycos.fr (directory
and search engine), nomade.fr, and msn.fr.

If I had a personal page on multimania.fr, I
know it would be automatically indexed, but I
don't, nor do I have a desire for one.

Does anyone know if it is possible to submit an
"outside" francophone web page to the
multimania.fr search engine? If so, how?

Thanks for any help!

[Macguru]

Hi bridge

It seems that it still uses personal pages as default search. Else is Lycos. My entry door trought Lycos was Fast. Since a couple of months no major updates was made. See recent posts in the Fast and Lycos Forum [webmasterworld.com].

Good luck.

[bridge]

Thanks for your quick response, Macguru!

[heini]

In the course of the discussion on paid vs free strategy for a pan european campaign [webmasterworld.com] I was trying to update my knowledge of french directories. Here are some findings - of course well known to our french members, but perhaps interesting for the rest:

Nomade.fr [nomade.fr]
directory inclusion:
99 Euro for Traitement Grande Vitesse (Express Inclusion)

also: Offre Sur-Mesure
Express inclusion, multiple listings per site, creation of catégories, etc.
prices undisclosed
[ajouter.nomade.tiscali.fr...]

Yahoo.fr [fr.yahoo.com]

Yahoo Express: 250 Euro/500 Euro adult sites
Y! standard express inclusion terms
[fr.docs.yahoo.com...]

Voila.fr [voila.fr]

Soumission Express Express inclusion
very much like the Yahoo deal, 7 days turnaround time, no guarantee for inclusion, 199 Euro. Bulk discounts.
[voila.fr...]

Additionally toplistings are puchasable: Pole Position

So the top french directories are all gone paid. Sure enough all of them still feature a free submission option, emphasizing however those are not recommended.
Certainly something worth noting when targeting France.

[Macguru]

>>still feature a free submission option, emphasizing however those are not recommended

Yes Y! free submission not only takes 8 weeks to process, but they also tend to remove any keywords in title or descriptions.

[angiolo]

These expression sumbissions seems to be one time fee.

Is it better to pay now to be there? Are they moving to the annual fee?

[heini]

>Are they moving to the annual fee?

Hmm, that's a good one. We see Yahoo Europe echoing every movement the mothership makes. So - sure, what would stop them?

The only question is - is their position on the market strong enough?

[Macguru]

Y!.fr paid inclusion is relatively new. Y! French Canada does not offer this option, revision is still free. The staff doing the revision is in France. Turnaround for a free inclusion is still about 8 weeks. When I submit some French Canadian site to both Y! FC and Y! fr only one editor comes by and I get the same title and description in all 4 cats.

I agree with heini on the echo local Y! makes to Y!.com and also have my questions on market positions. For instence Y! French Canadian is a small market (-3 million with Internet acess) and have a strong local competitor. Both factors that could explain why Y! French Canadian is not offering payed inclusion yet.

I believe every local Yahoo! have it's own criterium for payed inclusions and recurring fees. I think it is only a matter of time since they adopt it.

[heini]

Update on the new paid submission scheme for the nomade.tiscali.fr directory:

- Nomade allows to submit multiple listings from one site to multiple categories.
- Nomade will help in finding the best descriptions, titles and keywords ensuring top listings in the categories.
- Even setting up of new categories are offered.
- Turnaround time is 48 hours.
- Performance of the listings is monitored and documented.
- Prices are 1 URL: 99€ - 10 urls: 800€ - 20 urls: 1480€ - 30 urls: 2060€ More urls are possible.

All in the interest of enhancing the search experience at Nomade of course.

source:www.adcom.fr [adcom.fr]

[French Connexion]

Nomade belongs to Tiscaly Group, Telecom and ISP. it is interesting to be there.
I would be interested to know if they will continue with the Directory Nomade or to switch to GG(providing secondary SERPS for Nomade).

But Prepare you site description. it very important. The the submision fee is €99 do not hesitate to pay €€€€ for your description. that's you invetment.

[louponne]

> they will continue with the Directory Nomade or to switch to GG

You mean that the nomade directory might be discontinued???

[French Connexion]

louponne,

that was my question. From business POV I do not see the (future) added value of static directories. Y! included.

new stats for France
>Online population: 9,0 million (July 2000)

please correct with this one

Online population: 10,4 million (Dec 2001; NetValue), or 8 mio households (Feb 2002;Jupiter MMXI)
In France, almost every household has access to the "online" world trough Minitel.
Online population above means, of course, the Internet population.

[heini]

The Nomade directory is a very interesting beast indeed.
Actually Nomade rents out the directory to the big SEO agencies. If that is a long term strategy is an open question. IMO.
Look at this lengthy pondering on this very subject
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum18/425.htm [webmasterworld.com]

[Laurent]

> You mean that the nomade directory might be discontinued???

Probably no ... but ....

When i was to Nomade in january, they said that the brand "Nomade" is too historical for the french people , so Tiscali go on to use it.
That's wright, Nomade was on the first directories in France. Nostalgia :)
After multiples changes on the staff and owners, now Nomade is steel in the TOP 10 in France, but this goog placement belong to Tiscali.

But now ?
At this time, on Nomade, the brand "Tiscali" was most important and now the exact url is nomade.tiscali.fr.
There is a short way to become www.tiscali.fr no ? :)
(Have on mind to change your keywords.ini on Webrtends ... )

Lokace.fr : out
worldOnline.fr become : tiscali.fr
Freesbee.fr become : freesbee.tiscali.fr
Infonie.fr become : .... etc ..

And for Excite.it ?

Tiscali, the hungry portal ;)

[Laurent]

Rencke,

some informations and little modifications on french SE :

Looksmart.fr: Own directory search + Google for web now
Lokace: closed by Tiscali

Laurent

[heini]

Laurent - thanks! Looksmart teaming up with Google has had a thread of it's own - that was big news.

Very interesting points about Tiscali - they are are probably the most underrated European player.

[heini]

>short way to become www.tiscali.fr

One step further - look at Nomade today, you wouldn't recognize it anymore ;)

Tiscali branding in full effect. I wonder if this will hurt the popularity of Nomade.

[louponne]

Wow, yup - branding, here we come! Bye bye nomade - too bad, I kind of liked that little nomade guy - he was sure a lot more original than this.

Why two "recherche web" boxes? Looks like there are still a few things to iron out!

And the "recherche shopping" box seems to be a team-up with toobo.com?

I get practically no hits on sites listed on nomade, er, I mean tiscali. Does anyone get any visits from nomade.tiscali.fr ?

[Laurent]

> One step further - look at Nomade today, you wouldn't recognize it anymore

My last post was too optimistic, I think :(
The brand Nomade will be out soon.

> And the "recherche shopping" box seems to be a team-up with toobo.com?

yes, that's right, it's toobo behind this. A brand of Tiscali. It's a "comparison shop" like Mysimon

[heini]

To my great surprise I actually found an outlet for Antisearch:
http://www.francite.com [francite.com]

Operating from Canada...