Forum Moderators: buckworks
I'm looking for comments for/against implementing full ecommerce.
My site sells to business customers. About 50% of our products are 'off the self' the rest are customised.
At the moment I have a form - select items and we'll send you a quote. Not many people use it, most ring, fax or email us. This works - but I can't help wondering how many just don't bother and move on to our competitors.
We do take credit cards, but most customers pay by cheque or bank transfer, which I prefer as I don't have to worry about CC fraud.
I've looked at several full ecommerce systems (commersus, osCommerce etc) but they:
a) handle our customised products poorly/not at all
b) seem geared to CC payments
c) are overkill for us - too many features etc.
So at the moment I'm thinking about a custom ASP script. Next to each item a 'click for quote' button, which will add to a 'quote basket' when the customer has finished they can add comments, delivery address etc. We will then email/fax a quote, payment methods etc.
What do you think, will this work or put people off, is there a better solution, should I go for a full blown ecommerce system?
Your suggestions for or against, will help me decide which way to proceed.
Steve
A B2B ecommerce system should (IMO) be properly integrated (preferably with live integration) to your web front end. When a customer arrives at the site, they can then identify themselves (usually a USRNAME/PWORD system, or by being authenticated elsewhere, and passing that authentication to the cart), and see a personalised display from your site.
The personalised elements may include :
Product catalogue per customer
Specific pricing per customer
Delivery address(es) per customer
Look and feel per customer
Language per customer
Previous sales activity
Order tracking
Credit terms
Recurring order facilities
etc., etc.
Once an order is placed, ideally, that information should be returned to you in a format that makes it as easy as possible to use the information to update your internal systems. As most modern accounts and stock control systems use some form of ODBC (Open DataBase Connectivity) compliant database, there are various ways of importing that to update the customers record, your stock levels etc.
The idea is, that as you know who they are, you can provide a much higher level of automated service, otherwise your not providing true B2B functionality, just B2C that requires a logon.
Of the 2 ecomm packages you mention, osCommerce is really a B2C solution, and not well suited for the B2B environment without heavy modification (also hence the c/c gearing you noted). True B2B solutions are frequently in higher price brackets than you may have considered, if you even looked at osCommerce (assume a base cost of £5k, and a max cost of £whatever you need to spend)
>> should I go for a full blown ecommerce system?
Yup. If B2B is *really* what you want to offer, then you will need a more advanced setup than a custom ASP script (unless you are, or can afford a VERY good ASP developer). Pick a solution that does most of what you want, then get a good developer to customise it (and support it!) to be exactly what you want. This will work out cheapest in the longer run
osC can be modified to do just about everything you would need, so long as you are not gearing your sales to certain large companies that require specific applications.
Recommendations for small/medium businesses focused on selling to other small/medium businesses, modify osC (we love it), wanting to break in to the supply chain of large business, Lawson Software ERP system & Commerce One BuySite / MarketSite.
Some search terms that might help you:
Association for Retail Technology Standards, , CPFR, ebXML, GCIP, GNX, RosettaNet, UCCNet & WWRE
(if you are shooting for a particular closed-system.. Wal-Mart + B2B )
Hope this helps....
Please forgive if I stepped on any toes, it is kind of hard to make specific recommendations and try to stay within the spirit of the rules.
All of my customers are businesses. Most are small/medium sized, a few are big corporations.
Most orders are one offs, our biggest customers order 2/3 times a year.
Because of the above should I think of their behaviour in terms of 'business' or 'consumer'? I'm leaning toward 'consumer' as they order occassionally and don't require me to integrate with their purchasing systems.
I'm starting to think I should offer a simple quoting system AND a full blown shopping system, and let them choose which to use. Or would this just confuse them?
Looking around the net there doesn't seem to be a standard answer - some businesses in a similar industry to mine use shopping carts, others custom B2B systems. I can't prove or disprove it, but I think the decision to use one over the other comes down to the size of the customers business and so their specific needs.
Steve
I don't have the budget for a full blown custom system at the moment, prehaps next year when my site is doing the business. :-)
I tried a search for osC, is this short for osCommerce? Yes, I know I'm thick, but humour me!
For now I'm probably going to go with osCommerce and find someone to customise it for me. If things go well I can rethink later.
Instead of trying to find a solution that meets what you preceive your needs to be, why don't you tell us exactly what your needs ARE:
I'm sure there are lots of developers here (I'm a Project Manager for a Development Firm) that can lend you some thoughts and advice as to the best course of action.
What do you wish this site to accomplish?
Do you have legacy systems that need to be integrated with?
Survey current customers to polls THEIR needs (tell them you wish to move this type of format and ask their input on what they'd like to see.. would going this route mean they order more because its easier?)
Things like this... You need to plan more indepth before you consider an actual direction to move in.
Just my thoughts,
Aaron
I'd examine your business model first (not to say you haven't) and determine if the above facts are at all related to your current marketing/sales mechanism. Using an ecomm solution with the right management and marketing will almost certainly change your statistics.
The beauty of an ecomm solution which completes the transaction is that it capitalizes on the impulse purchase. If I have a choice between filling in a PO and waiting versus buying what I want/need right now you can bet I'll be looking for a website that allows me to make my purchase right now. And the more competitive the market sector is the more likely I'll go elsewhere. Now if you're in a market sector where there are only a handful of players and you're the top-dog, then you have reputation on your side which will help but the convenience of immediate purchase at your competitors will take a large chunk of your business away.
If you don't go the ecomm route then to improve your sales, think value added services. If you're going to go the route of POs, there had better be some significant advantage to your customers for having to wait for thier order to be completed. Historical sales information, new product announcements, express ordering because they're a previous customer, etc... Be creative. And even if you do go with the ecomm solution - think along these lines. Service(s) is the name of the game.
If you do go with a full blown ecomm solution, there are a number of free carts available that you can customize as needed. The problem you'll face in any cart situation are those customized orders. If you can't easily build a tool to allow for customized orders then you're best bet is to stick with prepackaged items. You could look at your sales data and see if there's a trend that indicates 50% of your customers like widget A in blue with options #3 & #6 added. Then build a package for sale based on that info.
As for OSCommerce just search on OSCommerce.
Marketbiz:
I'm not sure how much specific information I can give without getting edited by TallTroll... Our products are industrial and used in factories, workshops, warehouses etc.
I want to use our website to sell direct to end-user's (the majority of my customers). I have a small group of resellers who don't use the internet (yet) and one or two who do.
I don't have any legacy systems to integrate.
Our website is currently 'informational' (60 pages and growing). It generates sales leads via phone, fax and email.
In addiion we use trade shows and advertising in trade mags. Although our website now produces more sales than these.
Our competitors sites are basic small brochure sites. None offer on-line ordering... so I see an opportunity to be exploited!
Iorax:
I agree that our customer profile will change, it already has just having a website, I get a much broader range. I can also see the benefit of CC orders, although here in the UK at the moment I'm not sure how many businesses would use them.
The custom products remain a stumbling block, they come in 10 basic sizes, two versions and anything from 1 to 150ft. in one foot increments. We also require several specific pieces of information before we can manufacture them. Prepack is not an option.
I've downloaded a copy of oscommerce which I'm going to have a play with, to see if I can customise it.
Regards
Steve
The custom products remain a stumbling block, they come in 10 basic sizes, two versions and anything from 1 to 150ft. in one foot increments. We also require several specific pieces of information before we can manufacture them. Prepack is not an option.
Are the 10 basic sizes priced by the foot? Is the information you require the same regardless of length but maybe different for each of the 10? Sticky me with the details if you'd like 'cause at the moment I don't see why you can't make a prepackage option or allow for various arrangements of the 10 sizes in different lengths - though I do believe you'd have to build some form of customized interface.
I run a business that provides, basically, certain custom services to small and mid-sized businesses (and occasionally state, federal, and local government agencies). Just like you, I have pages describing all the gory, technical details, and many of the possible combinations thereof. We even have an ordering system, where they can use a "comments" field to provide all the possible details (we're talking a lot, here; over a dozen, minimum, and often many more). The customers are generally very savvy, know *exactly* what they want, and have no problems with the internet.
That being said, virtually nobody uses the internet to *order* from us. Yes, they find us on the web, but they nearly always call us (or overnight/second-day-air us a cheque and details, but even then they usually call first). I've developed a pretty fair rapport with some of these customers, one of whom calls at least once a week to make some little change here or there, and I've asked a few why they always call. Some of them are overseas, very few are local, the calls are costing them money. They all say the same thing: They use the phone because it's (percieved as being) quicker and easier, because it's more interactive (with a real person, who presumably is less buggy than any computer script), and because they *know* the response is going to be faster. (Well, they think; average response time to an email is 17 minutes, which I don't think is bad.) Most of them say they wouldn't use an ecommerce system even if it loaded in half a second, spoke in a sultry voice, played their favorite music and triple-checked everything they entered for errors.
The internet may be great for making leads, but (at least in fields where you're not just selling Acme Widget Model 101's in one color) for b2b business, I think it's still the telephone and personal interaction that makes the sale.
As to whether you're losing customers because you don't have a huge, bells-and-whistles ecom program, my best guess is "no". Serious buyers - ones sitting at a desk, credit card next to the keyboard, determined to purchase this, that or whatever before they go home at night - don't really want to wade through pages and pages of forms, entering information just to see if your price is competetive. Odds are good they just want to visit a site, check out the specs, and the make a call...
Most of our phone calls begin "Hi, is this <companyname>? Cool. My name is <blah> from <BlahCorp, Inc>. I see on your website that you offer <some service>? What's the best possible price you can give us for <insert needs here>?" They don't want a detailed explanation to five decimal points how we figure out our pricing, they just want to know how much it'll cost them, and if maybe it'll cost less if they pay every six months.
The only people who have *ever* ordered from us online, now that I check our order history, are private individuals looking for service for themselves. Not a single company of any sort has ordered online. Huh.
As always, your mileage may vary... Just my 02c worth.
I've had a look back over our last few months enquiries, it strikes me that people who bother to phone or fax are MUCH more likely to order than those who fill in forms or email.
This started me thinking about my own buying behaviour. I buy books, software, cd's etc. on-line for personal and business use. But, for bigger purchases for business, I always search the web then telephone. Talking to someone reassures me that I'm dealing with a 'good' business.
Sites that do have full ecommerce systems make me think the business behind them is bigger/more serious/better, than those who don't, but this is a subconcious thing along with page layout, site size, content etc. it goes to create an overall feeling.
Prehaps it is important to have on-line ordering, even though it will rarely be used, just for the image it creates?
Obviously, if human interaction is a vital part of your sales process, that changes things, as you are essentially operating in a B2C environment (regardless of the fact that your "consumers" may be corporations with credit accounts with you).I know what you mean about using the web to search then placing orders by phone.
In my experience, the most successful B2B operations generally have some or all of the following characteristics :
1) Fairly stable customer base (ie many repeat orders, and new customers intend to place repeat orders)
2) "Commoditised" product, possibly with customisation available, but not requiring the assistance of a technical sales advisor to select the appropriate product/service
3) Large order size/volume relative to the administrative element of the company
4) Significant efficiency saving for the operating company, either from reducing the time spent copying down orders, and/or answering phone calls from customers wanting to know where their order is. A good B2B system will handle most of this for you
If your requirements don't really match that profile (or something pretty similar) then you don't need a B2B system. You would almost certainly benefit from having an ecommerce option in place IMO, but a B2C setup may be more appropriate for the moment
I have some clients with perhaps similar business models.
My 2p ... consider a "call back" or "call me" button on perhaps every page of your site ...
This integrates the web browsing with real time comms with sales people who know what they are talking about and can expand and add serious credibility to the experience of visiting with your company.
How it works ..
Button on your site, click ... enter number and when to call... if you have one on each page, include information as to what is being viewed when they click .. you can do this via a telecom provider (very slick but costs more) or if you are able to respond (and I mean fast most people who click these want to speak to someone now I think)
You can just use a form and responsive sales desk staff.
It has persuaded me an occasion to buy from a firm who otherwise were just one of a very competitive pack ... their call back was immediate - thats stunning the first time you have this :-) their demonstration of their credibility, resposiveness and simple but vital customer care means my expectations were immediately exceeded ...
Interesting thread .. now back to work :-)
As a "business consumer", I'm seeing a lot of nominally b2b companies who are actively encouraging and promoting people to call them with questions or orders. I think this is because "customer service" and "customer satisfaction" are 'in' again, especially among buyers. The whole automated ecommerce thing was great for a while, but the often slow responses, lack of responses, and frequent confusion among poorly-implemented ecommerce systems has made a lot of people wary of dealing with computers.
I worked for a retailer once, who purchased it's janitorial supplies from a large national supplier with a 30-day account. The company opened up a ecommerce system on it's website, and the manager decided to order that way, rather than run the chance of getting put on hold. So he goes in, and orders twelve bottles of this, two bottles of that, and 200 trash liners (garbage bags). Except, see, he was actually ordering *CASES* of liners, each with a gross (144) liners... We figured later that a customer service rep would likely have asked "Sir, do you really want twenty-eight THOUSAND trash liners?"... Needless to say, when the truck showed up with two pallets of garbage bags, the manager decided then and there to never order another thing online. Of course, he was an idiot, but still...
Oh, yeah. The liners were non-returnable, too. :)
Just my observations.
It's always a shame when people blame others for thewir mistakes. Had he of read the information correctly before finalizing his order, maybe he would have saved himself some money and hardships.
I find, it's not generally the systems at fault, but rather the user of the systems.
B2B Ecommerce has a very big potential and as a devleoper of these systems it is a tough sell, no question about it.
Personally, what I find more appealing is the Marketing aspect of the net - the ability for a business to solve a business problem of a customer from their site and then make the call for an order.
That and maximizing exposre through quality - well designed and wonderfully worded copy - websites and lead generation with Email Marketing/Newsletters, etc.
Just my thoughts.
Aaron
Some people just like doing business the old-fashioned, person-to-person way. In the 1950's, when they introduced the first credit cards, a few people predicted that paper money would be eliminated within a decade and we'd all be using credit cards exclusively. Almost half a century later, it still hasn't come to pass - though I admit it's getting closer. The existance of ecommerce software shouldn't mean that personal interaction disappears - this is often what produces repeat business. It's much easier to impress a customer by being polite, helpful, and knowledgable than by including a 1MB flash animation on your website, or, rather, you can impress -more- people, by being polite, etc than by bombarding them with high-tech webpages.
I like to think that as my business grows, customers are going to start telling their friends, coworkers, colleagues, whomever, if you need such-and-such, you should really call so-and-so at widgets.com; he's very helpful and really knows his stuff. I think, and this is just me, that this is going to be more profitable in the long run than website or software overoptimization and enhancement. I mean, I have a hard time imagining someone telling a friend "you should visit widgets.com, they've got a really slick online-ordering system that's fully HTML 4.01 compliant! Can you believe it?"
At the end of the day, low prices and ease of use may win you the sale. A week later, though, the experience the customer had with the first order is going to win or lose you all their future business.
What's that trite expression? You only get one chance to make a first impression?
Along the lines of what Marketbiz says above; concentrate on online marketing; make it easy for customers to find out about your products online, and make it as easy and enjoyable as possible for them to purchase them.
On a related tangent, has anyone besides me noticed a virtual lack of credit card (or other) fraud on telephone orders? I don't really get very many online, but I've yet to have one from a telephone sale.
Nothing trite about it IMO ... its a vital truism ..
I certainly am affected by it it simply has a big effect...
IMO businesses that integrate a fast efficient well planned and executed web presence, of whatever kind, which is specified around the needs of their target customers much more importantly than around their own efficiencies will gain and retain more .. customer returns is about customers coming back not products :-) trite perhaps .. because the bin liners did not come back neither did the customer! .. anyhow those that integrate well planned fast and convenient web solutions with super service .. they are the ones I expect to be the winners .. it takes both..
