Forum Moderators: buckworks
I've looked over the current payment options and as much as I'd really like to support Brett & the site I think I'll have to pass because at the moment the payment options are not at all appealling.
PayPal - I don't trust them, not least of all because they aren't willing to be bound by the same rules as regular banks, they also require that they are allowed to hold my details for what amounts to a one-off payment.
2CheckOut - I had a look at this and got the impression that I was buying a subscript+rebill, this on top of the little description text saying "subscription-6m" for the 12 month option unnerved me enough to put me off this method.
Check/Cheque - I'm sorry but the chance of paying an intl .site drops to a very low % for me when I can't make payment over the net. First off we have the fact that I've got to mail something over the ocean, secondly I need to get a money order made up to USD - it's too much effort for what amounts to an impulse purchase.
I don't have a problem paying for things I can see the worth of (and I do the see the worth of being a member here) but if Brett really wants people to support the site there's got to be a nicer way to give them the money.
- Tony
Suggestions?
lawman
I can see your point.
I myself was an ANTI-paypal person, and even expressed this to Brett last year when paying for PubCon, however it has proved very reliable and convenient, and I am a true convert these days.
Shak
Running my own UK business, I get dollar cheques from time to time (rather than real money), and (surprisingly) the banks do cash them (for a fee). I cannot spoeak for Brett, but if you don't want to send a dollar cheque, I would assume that a UK streling cheque can be turned into funny money in the USA
Brett?
Actually not that I want to plug them at all but I noticed one of the firms that I have a credit card with (Egg) launched a new service recently - essentially online electronic funds transfer for small amounts. Admittedly this does suck for paying for subscriptions but is good for more personal transactions.
As a paypal replacement this is pretty good if you happen to be dealing with people from a country they support because they can either get me to do the transfer or I can get an email sent to the recipient which allows them to specify their bank details and transfer a pre-arranged amount of cash if they know a pre-arranged security code of my choice. Also in the better than paypal stakes its all backed by a real bank.
Finally I loath paypal because the old account is in an unusable state - I can't get re-verified with a new card and I can't close the account and start over because I have cash left over. I can't transfer it out because I trust them with a bank account even less, I also can't give that cash away because I'm un-verified therefore have a transfer limit of $0. Oh joy.
Lawman,
Easier? Let's see... How about the current CC processor with no rebill and/or a better idea of what exactly I'm being charged for. Either that or get a big name such as WorldPay.
My big "not a chance I'm using them" flag gets raised whenever something wants my details on a permenant basis for what amounts to a one-off transaction.
cornwall,
There is standard CC processing available but it appears to come with a rebill (or at least be very vague on the issue), which is something I wont touch with a stick.
GBP check idea might have legs though, I guess I'll wait and see!
- Tony
The horror stories I hear always make me a little
suspecious as far as the parties involved. 2Checkout takes
5.5%? Are they kidding me? That's no where near competitive.
Plus paypal's "cart upload" and "instant payment notification"
is super easy, ultra reliable and "free". You can interface any system to it
from simple javascript to the most complex merchant system.
(lol no I don't own stock or anything)
My one big gripe with paypal is that they REQUIRE
you to have a credit card to register to pay by check. I've
lost sales on some of my client's sites for that. No one
has come up with an alternative in the thread I posted about that :(
Who said "easier"? Your original post said "nicer". :) In any event, BT either should or already has, taken notice of suggestions posted here.
I would not use them anyway because of an appaling experience with them in the past, but I still want to join.
A cheque overseas is not an option due to costs.
As for someones comment about PayPal, all I can say is I have put 10's of thousands through them and clients have put well into six figures through them. We've never had a single problem. Chargebacks are virtually non-existent and payments are instantaneous. I've got nothing but good things to say about pp - every experience I've had with them has been rewarding and positive. I feel it is an outstanding service that fullfills a need and they do it better than any other payment processor I've seen bar none.
I fully acknowledge they had some problems when they were frist starting. They've corrected those and the last two years have been a perfect track record. I've never dealt with a company that I have as much to say positive about them as PayPal (knock on wood).
Compare that to the standard merchant account/internet gateway where I have had nothing but problems and headaches. From Verisign to the Ibill's it's been chargebacks, fraudulent cards, missing customer service, bad confusing interfaces, addon fees, and all around gotchas - I loath dealing with those people and their services. (verisign has been the worst company as far as products and services, that I have _ever_ dealt with in my years - worse than Microsoft) I feel I can lose 10% of my customers and still come out money ahead by using PayPal.
First, some merchants use bank wire transfers, and it's supposed to be relatively simple. I've heard about those from mom 'n pop merchants, so it shouldn't be that complicated or costly because they generally don't deal in high ticket items or have too much technical inclination.
Then, there's American Express Travelers Cheques [americanexpress.com] or gift checks. Those folks have been dealing in international currency issues for as long as I can remember, and they have the currency conversion right on their site.
It's probably worthwhile checking additional options out, for the few who might have problems because of their location who might have no other options available. For one thing, it's good general knowledge to have and there may be a very workable solution.
I love PayPal - never, ever a problem and I use them all the time. I'd rather do that than deal with checks, even by local mail.
PayPal allowed me to fill in the forms, then charged me a US$ 1 processing fee, then asked me to fax long distance (not cheap from Thailand to America) copies of something forget what, had to do this twice.
They then finally said because my card I am in Thailand I cannot use their services.
They never refunded my US$ 1 (not a lot but a few hundred thousand people like me and it adds up) nor any of the charges I had by faxing them.
Try contacting them there are no contact details anywhere on the site.
But that is all in the past, so options and choices would be good.
But PayPal is the only service I have seen that does support
other countries paying with non-US cards [I'm saying that so someone proves me wrong :)]
They support over 30 countries:
[paypal.com...]
even amazon.com doesn't do that with their webcontent payment system
[s1.amazon.com...]
I love this site and have learnt a lot here but I'm not a professional web person and my industry is not well paid. I totally understand why the subscription service has been introduced but I would still like to be able to help.
I've used PayPal on more than a few transactions and all seems to be well.
In regards to the subscription, there are few things on the Internet that are worthy of a yearly subscription. WebmasterWorld is at the top of the list.
Pssst, you may have to give up renewing your copy of *** or not buying a specific piece of software this year! :(
Thanks Pg1.
Some questions :
1) With the second option of 2checkout (gateway) I am charged it says an aditional US$ 8.
As the rates are not cheap (I am not saying that they are not good value but they are not cheap) why does Webmasterworld not absorb this cost?
I to be honest do not see why I should have to pay the subscription plus a charge just because you cannot accept credit cards directly.
2) As the entire success of webmasterworld depends on its contributors will you be rewarding contribtutors?
For example as an idea the first year is the same price for everyone, but then the price differs from the amount of posts (contributions) made. More posts cheaper the sub fee.
This gives people more incentive to post and also rewards them in a way with a discount.
3) You say one benefit is discounts on the Pub Conferences - Where do these take place? This to many here will not be an advantage at all.
4) Also a very humble suggestion, but using the Alexa toolbar figures to show popularity in a regular thread I find a little strange. Why not create a new page which shows all the excellent press coverage you have received. That really would say a lot more to me than the edited Alexa thread.
c2it from Citibank does 100 countries, and thats the largest I have ever seen to date. (even Thailand! :) )
[c2it.com ]
The only "catch" is it's $10 per transaction. Maybe Brett can do a 50/50 split cost
for international people that want to pay for a year and are not covered by PayPal's territory.
I've filled out thousands of forms and the c2it one is like a bank loan. Oyyy! :(
still with money its tricky... and paypal actually with a credit card is super easy...
its just their check acceptance system is poor - within the USA there is no excuse for that...
you have to admit, over 100 countries is impressive though, there is some serious risk being taken there...
[secure.ikobo.com...]
look at the 130 countries, and many can both
send and recieve to a VISA atm (debit) card
[secure.ikobo.com...]
for example, Thailand can send and recieve
where on c2it they can only send to USA
Their rates seem very good too, I am hunting for
little gotcha's right now:
[secure.ikobo.com...]
Looks like they have a "free shopping cart" coming soon which
will really give PayPal some competition as their fee's look decent.
[secure.ikobo.com...]
(probably need to start a new thread on this I guess)
That way no problem for anyone anywhere, and it also looks a lot more proffesional.
The price tag is a proffesional price tage so the payment plan as well should be.
Just curious but what did other members think about my suggestion in point 2 of post above?
Brett should set up a company and accept direct payments just like Amazon does
um, I think that's the whole point, a regular US merchant account from a bank, etc.
cannot take international visa/mastercard
After working for AOL for a few years (albeit quite awhile ago)
I know even they cannot accept international visa/mastercard on a US account.
Not sure how amazon does it, if you are saying they can take payments from
anywhere in the world?
But as has been mentioned in a thread about donating money vs. contributing some time back rewarding contributors is not as easy as it might seem prima facie. You do not want to reward low quality posts. But unless there is some kind of quality assessment being done that is exactly what you will be doing.
Andreas
I do have an Amazon affiliate account, but don't care for that hassle of using them - nor world pay. I've looked at just about every kind of verification system and in order to use most, I feel I would have to add 25-50% on top to make it work.
1) With the second option of 2checkout (gateway) I am charged it says an aditional US$ 8.I to be honest do not see why I should have to pay the subscription plus a charge just because you cannot accept credit cards directly.
He is accepting credit cards directly... he's just being up front about passing on the processing fee to the subscriber.
I don't think Brett should have to absorb the fee when he's clearly decided on a price point that he feels is necessary to support the long term vision for WebmasterWorld.
Every type of merchant provider tacks on processing fees. The only reason you don't complain is because those costs are figured into the price that you're paying rather than pointed out in the ordering process.
Which brings us to the real issue at hand... how the offer is framed on the subscription page.
Options and incentives breed customer confidence.
Limitations and penalties breed customer anxiety.
Only in rare and very deliberate cases is anxiety a good thing to create in your prospective customer's minds. (time sensitive offers would be one example)
Brett, you could maintain the same price point in a much more compelling way by doing the following:
1) Raise the price of the subscription by $8 to cover the processing fees.
2) Offer a discount to those subscribers that choose to use PayPal since it is your preferred method of payment.
People hate additional fees. :(
People love discounts. :)
spot on. the extra fee to cover processing is offputting. considering the potential number of subscribers here and the subscription rates, 2checkout seems to be a strange and probably very expensive choice.
>>(brett) As for someones comment about PayPal, all I can
>>say is I have put 10's of thousands through them and
>>clients have put well into six figures through them.
>>We've never had a single problem.
brett, you might not have problems, but your potential subscribers do. look back to the pubcon threads from last year - several people said they had trouble paying for pubcon by paypal. you shouldn't be turning a blind eye to these problems ....
In the time that it has taken to debate this, you could have put a check in the mail and posted it off. A MASSIVE effort is put into making this site available. Would it really hurt that much to be slightly inconvenienced by the method of payment?
