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Fraud order but everything matched!

     
4:48 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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So somebody placed an order on my website. The billing and shipping was the same and AVS says everything matched, house numbers and zip code etc. Yet she disputes it claiming it is fraud! Why would somebody steal a card and ship the stolen merchandise to the customer's address? I can't believe the bank bought that excuse. It's laughable in a way but not really cause now I got hit with a charge back. I try to keep my charge back percentage low but I can't account for this percentage of fraudsters.

Any tips?

I know if nothing matches, it's common sense to void it. BUT everything matched. I even Googled her name and there were public record reports confirming her address I also got back Signifyd reports saying she was a score of 957 and a low risk. I had no reason to believe it was fraud.

I just called her and she said, "my card was stolen, so I had to dispute it". I think this was a lame excuse to get away from paying for something. I guess there is nothing I can do but just pray that my number of fraudsters is low? The way credit cards are setup is so crazy.

I even put a note in the package that says, "if you aren't happy, call me". I'd rather refund it than take a hit to my account. I am so irritated right now.
5:05 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Ouch, sorry to hear about that.

What about the shipment? Do you have anything that shows it was delivered and signed for?
6:13 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Why would somebody steal a card and ship the stolen merchandise to the customer's address?

Was it a small charge? The person who stole the card (if it actually happened) may have just been doing a test transaction to verify the card worked before moving on to bigger ticket items. Although taking the time to verify the shipping address before placing the test order seems a little extreme.

By the way, did she return the merchandise?
6:59 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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I can only sympathize. I had the same thing happen to me. It was a custom made item with the customers name displayed across the product as per the order. It was delivered to the confirmed address and with signature confirmation on delivery but they claimed fraud. I lost over $1500.00 on that episode.

After that I got a better Merchant Account and it never happened again. The Merchant Account should have been involved to help you defend your transaction. Yes, it cost more money for a proactive account.

I put a page on my site regarding the honesty of that customer. It was not linked to anywhere, but it showed up in searches. That's all the satisfaction I ever got. Good luck, it is not too easy out there.
7:42 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Engine, she signed for it. I have her signature at FedEx.com but somebody could forge it, right? So the bank isn't buying that.

LifeinAsia, no it was $400. Pretty pricey. Talked to her on the phone way back when, remembered her voice then. She told me about why she needed it, etc. Everything seemed legit. Average tickets are about nothing, so nothing seemed shady.

No2Easy, will have to look into proactive accounts. I just wish the merchant would look at it as a fraud that was unpreventable and not make me take a hit for it. That is what bothers me most.
8:01 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Talked to her on the phone way back when
Presumably you have some record of the call (e.g., call log from your phone company, history on your cell phone)?

You didn't say if she still has the merchandise. If so, you could contact the local police and file a stolen item/fraud report. Not sure if they would actually do anything about it, but if she's done it more than once (that's been reported), they might be more willing to do something. And if you have some sort of proof that you talked to her before the transaction, it would seem to me that you have a little bit more evidence in your favor.
11:38 pm on Aug 2, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Don't card issuers in your country use 3D Secure codes?
9:03 am on Aug 3, 2016 (gmt 0)

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>> 3D Secure codes

if used - does this mean the transaction is guaranteed?
9:14 am on Aug 3, 2016 (gmt 0)

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>> 3D Secure codes

if used - does this mean the transaction is guaranteed?


If the customer uses it, you are guaranteed to be protected from chargebacks for the reason of fraud. You are not guaranteed against any other reasons, for example if a customer says they never received the item.
1:48 pm on Aug 3, 2016 (gmt 0)

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LifeinAsia: I record phone calls. It would be tough though to prove that somebody wasn't pretending on the phone, to be her. That is likely what she would say to defend herself. As far as contacting the police about stolen merchandise that she signed for, we are talking about a $400 item which may or may not be worth all the legal fees involved, headaches, etc. Maybe I ought to suck it up and make an example out of her.

What bugs me most is, I just wish the banks would say, "everything on the order matched, there was no reason to believe it was fraud so we should not hit them with a charge back". I understand that is not how it works but the whole process is frustrating. It would be one thing if the name didn't match, address didn't match, and we just ignored all of that and processed the sale. That I would understand.

PClick: I've looked into 3D codes before. I assume you are talking about things like MasterCard SecureCode or Verified by Visa? The issue for me has always been customers who don't know their code and that delays the order, which reduces sales. In my opinion, the more hurdles you put customers through, the less sales you will get. I know it may stop some fraud, but if less than 1% of my business is potential fraud, do I want to irritate the other 99%. I'll likely try it on my site, see what feedback I get from customers. Thanks for the suggestions.
2:33 pm on Aug 4, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Does anybody know if there is a grace period with charge backs? Meaning that suggest that a a customer reports a charge as fraud. They then issue a charge back but later we call them up and explain to them our website, what they bought and suddenly they realize it's a legit charge. They call the bank back in less than 24 hours and reverse the charge, is that charge back hit taken away from our account? Somebody told me once you have a charge back, that charge back hit never leaves. Another frustrating point about banks if it's true.
5:17 pm on Aug 4, 2016 (gmt 0)

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I can make a complaint against a charge back through my merchant account. I got 3 charge backs this year and made one succesful complaint. So i got my money back including the charge back fee.
6:06 pm on Aug 4, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Which company delivered it ? Ive seen this before with iPads and then coincidentally 'misdelivered' and signed for by a certain very well known courier that uses local agents
5:21 pm on Aug 24, 2016 (gmt 0)

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@bhukkel I guess my question, even if they reverse the charge back and give me my money back, my account history still shows that I had a charge back against me and so many charge back attempts, won or lost, could someday close my account?

@aspdaddy it was fedex.
5:26 pm on Aug 24, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Another order today. Woman called me, 3 way with her bank and said she was a victim of fraud. So the number she calls me with, matches the number she put down on her order. Also on her order, the billing and shipping matched, AVS 100% match even CVV2.

I understand there is a difference between card reported lost/stolen or straight fraud or identity fraud. Maybe I'm overthinking identity fraud, but is this how it works: So somebody hacks into the bank records for Jane Doe and changes her address from 123 Apple Lane to John Sir at 144 Ocean Ave. John Sir then places and order. I see an order, billing and shipping match and he signs for the package as John Sir. Unless I knew her account was stolen, what on that would make me second guess it?

So as a merchant, I get a charge and everything matches. What flag do I have to second guess this? Nothing. Does the merchant processor flag my account for this and punish me or do they see it as an unavoidable situation and won't punish me for accepting it? I just know all these charge back attempts will hurt me.
5:40 pm on Aug 24, 2016 (gmt 0)

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billing and shipping matched
somebody hacks into the bank records for Jane Doe and changes her address
Does the shipping/billing address on the order differ from her actual address (which would indicate this situation happened)? AFAIK, someone can't change the name on the credit card- just add another person to the account (which would also require the person's SSN, I believe). Unless it's a legal name change (marriage or other court-approved name change), in which case the CC company probably requires some sort of documentation.
10:41 pm on Aug 28, 2016 (gmt 0)

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What information does AVS even scan? If I say my address is:

123 Apple Lane
Oceangrove, CA 90211

Doesn't it only scan the house number of 123 and zip code or 90211?

I though it can't check actual names of streets, cities, etc?

I though if somebody placed an order as:

123 Dirt Ave
McDonalds,NM 90211

... AVS would still clear that?
12:20 am on Aug 29, 2016 (gmt 0)

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AVS can verify different levels, depending on the settings of a merchant. Address could be exact match only, if the account it set to that level. It is up to the merchant to choose what level of risk they will accept and pay accordingly. That allows merchants with lower levels of risk to pay less for their AVS services and accept partial match data. The merchant can also accept variations in AVS data at their discretion. That was my experience with both Verisign (before PayPal bought them) and Authorize.net after that.
5:09 pm on Aug 29, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Yeah that's a tough one. I've had a couple full identity theft "customers" over the years (which yours may or may not be) and they are nearly impossible to win. When a person's identity is stolen, (as opposed to just their card # and name shipping info) the thief can set up new credit accounts under the victims name. The name, phone, and address will all match what the bank has on file. These are rare because they require a level of sophistication and effort that most thieves don't have, and once used to "score", they get burned. After that first charge back, the account can't be used again.

The issue you raise is valid: Shouldn't the bank that allowed a thief to open a credit account be responsible for the charges instead of the merchant? And the answer is: Yes they should, but no they aren't.

I've spoken to a few "customers" who were victims of identity theft. As angry as I was to lose a valuable item, I am sympathetic to them, as they have to unravel a giant mess and their personal credit is often ruined.
10:13 pm on Oct 3, 2016 (gmt 0)

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A lot of times the crook will place the order and have it shipped to the billing address. They have the tracking email and wait at the address for the delivery truck. Walk up to driver ask them is this for x and sign the delivery receipt. Really a very tough deal your beat out of the money and the victim now realizes they have their financial info on the web. I have when I was in ecommerce been were your at now.

Another one was a certified check delivered product. Turns out the check was stolen from the back of the bank book and I was out 5k.

Another one mother said daughter used her card without permission and she won, didn't get the product back either. I could drive 500 miles to get it but a 45 dollar item, not gonna happen. She wouldn't ship it back even with a return label. This was one of the reasons I sold my ecommerce website you have a .000001% chance of winning one.

In all my years in ecommerce 15 I never won a single one. I could go on for a long time with examples of fraud but you will get those that are actually the customer lying to get a free item. They can get 100's of CC's and do this without raising suspicion.
 

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