Denied Chargeback Refusal

shipping billing address

[sceaux]

Plz read following and advise me what's next step.

2/8/11 Order issued amount $4,500
- Card Holder Name : "G"
- Different Billing(CA)and Shipping(MA)address
- Telephone number was wrong. But obtained receiver's valid phone number by customer's email.
- AVS(Address Verification System) matched

3/1/11 Card holder "G" claim to credit card company for credit card fraud case.

4/13/11 Received notification of charge back from credit card company
- To remedy chargeback, Faxed Copy of Invoice, UPS signed proof of delivery, evidence of positive AVS

4/28/11 Received notification of denial
- Reason is shipping and billing address is different. Resolve W/Cust.

All document we provided to credit card company was OK, but denial reason is different shipping and billing address.

We had lots of this kind orders.

We consider legal action to credit card company to recover $4,500.
What do you think? Your kind advise will be appreciated.
Thank you.

[LifeinAsia]

Welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]!

But obtained receiver's valid phone number by customer's email.

What do you mean by "valid" phone number? The number matched what the bank has and you called that number to have the customer verify that he placed the order?

UPS signed proof of delivery

Realistically, this is completely worthless. Anyone can sign for a package. And most of those signatures don't resemble the actual signatures of the person. (On a tangential note, the first shipper to start offering a photo of the signer would be a hit!)

We consider legal action to credit card company to recover $4,500. What do you think?

Waste of time. You can try going after the customer for the amount.

[akmac]

The phone number you need is the one that matches the billing name and address, so that you can verify with the actual card holder that he/she placed the order. Google is your friend for this purpose, I also regularly use intelius and switchboard.

AVS match is useful only if you send the package to the AVS matched address-which you didn't.

You won't get the money back from the issuing bank in this case. I know, it sucks.

[jecasc]

If it was a national order go to the police and also try to get your money in small claims court from the receiver.

[sceaux]

Thanks a lot.

Jesac, can't conduct small claim because order receiver was already gone somewhere.

And add more..

- Order Issuer, named "P", abused other person's("G") credit card and gave us order receiver's phone number in shipping address. On 4/13/11, order receiver, named "M", picked up our call but not talking and just dropped. Now phone number of order issuer and order receiver are no longer available. No email reply and No phone pick up.

My big complain is why credit card company notified after 1.5 months passed after card owner's claim.
If we were notified chargeback request earlier, maybe we conducted something to avoid total loss.

Credit card company Visa/MC always deny when billing and shipping address are different. Online seller will always be victim. This is unfair.

[jwolthuis]

... order receiver, named "M", picked up our call but not talking and just dropped.

As I understand the situation, the "telephone number was wrong. But obtained receiver's valid phone number by customer's email".

Having received this new number, you called, they hung up, and you shipped a $4500 item.

Hmmm...

[bwnbwn]

Yea the whole thing smells bad to me. I think in your rush to make a dollar you just threw it all to the wind and sent an order that should never been sent. It is a bad order and one you will have to pay for due to your lack of good judgement. I would have contacted the issuing bank and had them call owner requesting verification the order was placed by the card holder.

[sceaux]

Thanks.

When receive this order, of course I felt suspicious feeling and asked "P" by phone and email to check receiver's phone number.
P replied receiver's phone number by email with his excuse for couldn't pick up the phone at order processed time. Also I checked shipping address by Google map and definitely commercial address.

So far there are numerous different billing/shipping address orders.

Bwnbwn : I think it is impossible to get order confirm from card holder because his card information was stolen.
Thank you for your help.

I'm going to do two things.
1) Small claim to shipping address(MA) court, report police
2) Send Attorney's letter to CC company to refund back $4,500 for tardiness notification to us. Now I'm checking contracts.

I want to hear from you experts different billing/shipping is really right reason for denial reverse chargeback from Visa/Master CC company?

[LifeinAsia]

Bwnbwn : I think it is impossible to get order confirm from card holder because his card information was stolen.

Um, I think that's the whole point. If you had contacted the card holder BEFORE shipping the item, you would have found out that he didn't order the item.

Different billing/shipping should always be a red flag, especially with big ticket items.

[votrechien]

I'm going to do two things.
1) Small claim to shipping address(MA) court, report police
2) Send Attorney's letter to CC company to refund back $4,500 for tardiness notification to us. Now I'm checking contracts.

You have nothing to lose (sans a few hundred dollars) doing either of those things. And if the credit card company is at all in danger of being at fault (although it sounds doubtful), you might just scare them into giving your $4500 back.

With that being said, this does exemplify the precautions all retailers must take, especially with large orders like this. ALWAYS talk to the customer first via phone (and request to call them at a home number). Every new customer who has ever purchased more than $1500 from us has always wanted to talk to us on the phone first- just to make sure we're legit so it's a big red flag when they're dodging calls.

[Demaestro]

If you had contacted the card holder BEFORE shipping the item, you would have found out that he didn't order the item.

Most times this is right, but there was a thread only about a week or two ago and the person who stole the credit card also stole the person's identity.

The scammer called the bank and changed the card holder's personal info. When someone called the bank to confirm the card holders info they were given the scammer's phone number and address which matched the order and called it to confirm the order.

I think the person who recounted this story even said the shipping and billing addresses were the same, since the scammer changed the address with the bank it all matched up.

That is a fringe example though.

Of course, when they called the person they talked to confirmed the order, but he wasn't the card holder, he was the scammer.

[enigma1]

Credit card company Visa/MC always deny when billing and shipping address are different.

Well yes and for obvious reasons to reduce fraud. Think about it, if the real customer needs to ship to a different address, he contacts his cc company and he can add a second address as the billing address. And then he can use it for transactions (home vs office for example).