Paypal and ebay

New scam or just me

[Essex_boy]

I dont like Ebay or paypal and have avoided both for a number of years, however several workmates suggested that I try so against my better judgement I opened an account there recently.

Within 30 days I get my first fraud.

Guy asks question that are clearly answered on the listing, emails me three hours after ordering complaining that Ive not acknowledged his order, he then goes on to file a non delivery complaint the next day (!) and every day thereafter until ebay accept it.

I of course refund the money on the second day.

Same day as the refund he files a paypal complaint saying ive not refunded the money, now this is where it gets tricky and I think is where the scam is.

The refunded money has gone from my account, as you would expect, however Paypal attempt to take the same sum again on a direct debt, why ?

To refund him twice ?

Im unable to find the refund transaction number as all transaction numbers I list are rejected, now surely paypal can or should be able to see that this money has been refunded as the system is automated but it appears not.

So is it correct that if I do nothing he gets a double refund ?

Is there any way I can speak to someone at paypal ?

Any ideas as what to do next ?

[PCInk]

It looks like the challenge to the payment and refund have overlapped.

I've had that happen on merchant accounts. The bank (credit card issuer) gives notification to PayPal that they will do a chargeback if you do not provide information to prove the customer is in the wrong. PayPal take the money out of your account immediately (because the bank will request it unless you argue). At this point, the customer should not have been refunded but you no longer have access to the money.

Then, when you do a refund, it will also come out of your account and it will go on the customers card. It appears as though you have given them their money back twice but the customer only gets it once.

When the bank come to do the chargeback, they should (hopefully) notice the refund and the chargeback should be blocked. PayPal will be informed that the chargeback failed and they should release that locked money back into your account. Expect to still pay the chargeback fee, however.

Advice given to me by someone at WorldPay many years ago: Never refund a transaction once a chargeback/challenge has been made.

[jwolthuis]

Im unable to find the refund transaction number as all transaction numbers I list are rejected...

You mention PayPal, so I assume that payment was made via PayPal, not Payflow, etc.

PayPal cannot take your money twice. Every transaction has an ID, and subsequent related transactions can refund, but not double-dip, and put you in a hole.

If you refunded the customer via PayPal, the transaction number was available to you when you issued the refund. Click "Show me details of this transaction"; done.

Otherwise, search for the transaction amount in PayPal history. surely the refund affected your PayPal balance, and will show up?

Find the transaction ID of the refund, and add that to your case file under "resolution center".

[MWpro]

Ebay customers are the worst--fraudulent, unhappy, and/or cheap.

[jwolthuis]

Ebay customers are the worst--fraudulent, unhappy, and/or cheap.

And that differs from "regular eCommerce customers", how?

You just described 95% of customers who placed orders on my website today.

[Rugles]

Ebay is the worst ecomm platform. The customers all want a deal, few are willing to pay the advertised price. We get way more questions than sales and the answers to the questions are usually found on the page. Its like they refuse to read the details.

Not sure how any decent sized ecomm business survives and prospers on Ebay. I can see it being useful for a small operation being run out of a home and that is about it.

[dpd1]

Actually, I don't even think it works for that lots of times... When I first started, I tested my products on ebay... Stuff I routinely sold for hundreds on my main site, got 1 dollar bids on ebay. It's ridiculous. The people with money on there are long gone.

[HRoth]

Well, I don't know--I buy lots of stuff on ebay and don't rip people off or demand to pay less than the asking price, etc. Maybe it depends on what you are selling, just like regular ecommerce. Because most of my customers are not fraudulent, unhappy, and/or cheap, either.

It sounds like maybe Essex Boy did a Send Money to refund the crank and then Paypal took the funds out based on the original transaction number. They would not see those two transactions as connected. You can still issue a refund; they just moved the link up higher so (they hope) you will not notice it and will Send Money instead, thus allowing them to collect fees twice instead of them having to return the original fees they collected. I did get into a hassle with Paypal over a chargeback where I did a refund and then the customer immediately went and filed a chargeback. It took about a month to get it straightened out.

You can contact Paypal by phone (in the US, at any rate) if you have a business account. You go to the Contact page and keep pressing through all the obstacles until you get to a page with phone numbers on it.

[enigma1]

And that differs from "regular eCommerce customers", how?

By having full control of the transaction process.

[Essex_boy]

PayPal cannot take your money twice - Ahh but they did, Hroth had it right.

All very odd if you ask, personally im just glad to get rid of the customer

[Rugles]

keep pressing through all the obstacles until you get to a page with phone numbers on it.

how convenient!

It's almost like they don't want to make phone calls.

[HRoth]

It's exactly like that.