Think Credit Card Is A Fraud - Can I Verify With Amex?

[olimits7]

Hi,

I received an order, which I believe is from a fraud order.

I did a test authorization for $1.00 on the American Express card to see if it would get approved, and it did get approved successfully. This makes me think it could be a stolen credit card that is being used.

This is for a UK international order I received; so my AVS response on this transaction was "AVS Not Available".

Can I call up American Express and perform a manual AVS check? or verify if the name or phone number on the card match what I have on file?

Thank you,

olimits7

[MrHard]

Good question, you know I think I got a fraud order awhile ago. Do you think I should have called to confirm things with Amex first, or just ship it and cross my fingers?

[p5gal5]

If you call the merchant services department for your bank (not the payment processor, but where the funds are actually deposited) and give them the cc number, they will give you the contact information for the card's (in this case, amex) issuing bank.

There are thousands of cc issuers, so you will need the issuer for this particular card. They should be able to give you the issuing bank's fraud department #; the issuing bank's fraud dept will take the transaction information, verify billing/shipping information, and advise if there has been any fraudulent activity on the card. From my experience, they tend to err on the side of caution - if not enough information matches up, they will advise to not allow the card.

[olimits7]

Hi,

I would also be able to find out the CC issuer by matching the BIN number (first 6 numbers of the CC) to the following list; right?

[en.wikipedia.org ]

Based on this list the CC issuer is based out of Australia; so would this be the only place I can call to verify all the CC information for this card?

What I mean by this is I wouldn't be able to call the US Amex Merchant Number to verify this CC information; right? Or would the US Amex Merchant Number also have this CC's information on file as well?

Thank you,

olimits7

[Rugles]

Were there any other signs of fraud. Like:

- they need it NOW, and will pay anything for Express shipping?
- a free email address?

[olimits7]

Yes, there were other signs like:

- free email address
- very large order
- and based on maxmind the CC issuer is from Australia and the order came from the UK.

I'm 95% sure this is a fake order, but this is why I would like to call Amex to verify the information I have on file to what they have listed this way I can be 100% sure.

Thank you,

olimits7

[Rugles]

Well then, I am 100% sure its fraud. Don't waste anymore time ... except let them think it was shipped ... so they waste time looking for it ;-).

[LifeinAsia]

the CC issuer is from Australia and the order came from the UK.

What, people from Australia never go to the U.K. on vacation or for business?

Different issuing country and ship to country can certainly be a red flag. But I wouldn't call it a deal breaker. With the other red flags you mentioned, it would make it more suspicious. But if it's a big order, I would do some more checking before just throwing away the order.

except let them think it was shipped ... so they waste time looking for it

I lived overseas for 11 years and used U.S.-issued cards the entire time. If some company played around with me like this on an important purchase, you can be sure that they would NEVER have my business in the future and that I would be very vocal on discussion boards about the unprofessional way they did business.

[p5gal5]

I would also be able to find out the CC issuer by matching the BIN number (first 6 numbers of the CC) to the following list; right?

I'm not sure about this; the first time I had to check a cc number, I just contacted our banker and asked them to advise how to go about investigation (not just a local credit union - a very, very large bank). Turned out that we had a special rep for such matters, got a direct number and did not have to sit in 800-number, VRU-menu, hold-music hell. They gave me the direct number to the issuing bank fraud, and such matters tend to take 5-10 minutes to verify.

[Rugles]

you can be sure that they would NEVER have my business in the future

Sounds to me like Olimits7 does not want this business anyways.

Olimits7, are you in the UK?

[olimits7]

No, I'm actually located in the US...

Of course I want this business; if it's a valid order! This is why I'm NOT dismissing this order as being fraud until I verify with Amex and make 100% sure that it's not a fake order.

[Rugles]

No, I'm actually located in the US...

If there are people in the UK selling the same product, you have to ask yourself why they are avoiding them and giving you this "order".

Sounds real fraudy to me. Person is in the UK, from Australia but buying from America, with a free email address and apparently not caring about the shipping charges.

Do you have the IP address?

[olimits7]

Hi,

Yes, with MaxMind it records the IP address of where this order took place; which in this case was from the UK.

Ok, I just called the Credit Card Issuer for this card in Australia, and they verified for me thta the name and address did NOT match with what I had...not a big surprise here; so on that note this order has officially been "DECLINED"! hahaha...

olimits7

[topr8]

i've found a quick search on google for the shipping address can often be helpful if the address has been used for fraud before.

also slightly OT i have found AMEX to be extremely helpful (in the uk) whenever i've called them to query a card.

[Rugles]

not a big surprise here; so on that note this order has officially been "DECLINED"!

Now, tell the "customer" its been shipped ;-). Then bounce all the emails from them. Time for payback.

[olimits7]

Now, tell the "customer" its been shipped ;-). Then bounce all the emails from them. Time for payback.

Hahahaha...

I wish there was a service that would pretend to deliver their order and then smack them with a nice whip cream pie to the face! Then take a picture of them and email it to the website owner; so we can then post it up on a "wall of shame for fraud orders" page!

Now that would be a service I would pay for! ;-) hahaha...

olimits7

[MrHard]

When I tried doing that the rep on the phone said I had the wrong department, and I said "whats the correct number then". Whats up?

[olimits7]

First I called the US Amex merchant number, and they said they couldn't help me and I would have to contact their partner who issued this credit card.

This is when using the wikipedia list I posted before was a great help because it lead me to the exact partner who issued this credit card; so they were the one's that were able to actually help me out in verifying the info on the card.

[Realbrisk]

for orders over 250 dollers you can have Amex do a fruad verification for you, but if you did not chrage the order you are out of luck

[ytswy]

I wish there was a service that would pretend to deliver their order and then smack them with a nice whip cream pie to the face! Then take a picture of them and email it to the website owner; so we can then post it up on a "wall of shame for fraud orders" page!

Some friends of mine worked for a mail order computer retailer back in the '90s, and got an obviously dodgy order for several thousand pounds worth of top of the range Macintoshes. They called the police, who - bizarrely as it sounds - actually took an interest and asked them to make up some dummy parcels.

This they did, the police posed as couriers, and nicked the guy who signed for the package. He was tried and convicted. The police apparently reported back that they had a good laugh when they opened up the parcels, and found the filled to the brim with promotional flyers for the new Sherlock search tool [en.wikipedia.org] which Apple had recently debuted :)

Why this doesn't happen more is a complete mystery to me

[jecasc]

They called the police, who - bizarrely as it sounds - actually took an interest and asked them to make up some dummy parcels.

Actually the police always takes an interest. They are bound by law to take an interest. The only problem is they usually do not report back to you about a case. So you might report a fraud, hear nothing about it and believe they dismissed it while in reality the fraudster is sitting in jail already. Which then leads to the urban legends that you read in online forums: "I reported a fraud to the police and they did nothing, I never heard from them again." When in reality they investigated and the fraudster is sitting behind bars or at least got a fine - if it was his first offense.

[LifeinAsia]

Actually the police always takes an interest. They are bound by law to take an interest.

Maybe take an interest in filing a report, but not necessarily to follow-up on it.

Case in point- I filed a report and followed up several weeks later and was told the case had already been moved to the central records area, effectively killing any follow-up or investigation.

[jecasc]

I filed a report and followed up several weeks later and was told the case had already been moved to the central records area, effectively killing any follow-up or investigation.

You should check if it's possible in your country to file a criminal report not at the police but one step further up the ladder. I always report frauds to the public prosecutor office at the criminals address. They open a file, I get the file number for follow up and then the case is handed down to the police to investigate. So the police can not decide by themselves not to pursue a case but they always have to report to the public prosecutor. If a case is closed without indictment I get a letter where the decision has to be justified and I can file an objection if I disagree. On the other hand I got no feedback at all when reporting cases to police.

I only found out this "workaround" by chance. Maybe something like that exists in your country.