Checking this out for fraud

[Tonearm]

I just got an order that's about 12 times the normal order size. The billing address matches perfectly, but the shipping address is to another city in the same state. I'd like to call the cardholder to confirm the transaction. Is there any way for me to get their number?

[jsinger]

" Is there any way for me to get their number? "

I don't understand. Don't you ask for the phone number with each order?

We phone customers all the time for a multitude of reasons.

[tylerh]

I think he is asking with the thought that possibly the number provided on the order may not be the actual cardholder's phone number. We typically use an online "reverse lookup" from a well known free phone directory. Since you know the card billing address is a match you can try entering that address into the reverse lookup and seeing if their phone number is listed. If so you can obtain their phone number that way. However if their phone number is not publicly listed it will be difficult.

[MrHard]

Why bother? If everything matches up you are covered financially.

[PCInk]

Why bother? If everything matches up you are covered financially.

No he/she isn't. Note for a start that they have been asked to ship to a non-cardholder address.

I can see you either don't process payments or haven't processed them for very long.

I have had chargebacks where everything matches up - and I shipped to the billing address of the cardholder.

[ytswy]

I have had chargebacks where everything matches up - and I shipped to the billing address of the cardholder.

Too true. I've yet to discover any mail-order situation where a bank will actually take the hit for fraud.

[akmac]

Do a search on their name/address/email address. I use switchboard, pipl, google, and intellius to find valid numbers for customers. HTH

[rocknbil]

This is the time of year when orders tend to spike in size and quantity . . . and send gifts to their family and friends. I'd say with my clients, nearly half their orders are shipped to other addresses, but these clients are selling items that serve well as gifts.

Why would I want to pay for shipping and ship it again? Wrapping is a good reason, but often not good enough to pay for shipping twice.

Did the AVS come back OK? Often a white pages lookup may give you what you need to know. Or attempt to call the cardholder, I don't know why they wouldn't give their legitimate number. If it's not the same number, definite red flag.

[purplecape]

I work 9-5 in an office and often have packages delivered there, because I know I won't be home to accept the delivery, and I don't live in an area where packages can just be left.

[MrHard]

I have had chargebacks where everything matches up - and I shipped to the billing address of the cardholder

You may have a bad merchant account provider. That makes it a problem if you won't switch, not a problem for everyone.

[PCInk]

You may have a bad merchant account provider. That makes it a problem if you won't switch, not a problem for everyone.

We're talking about a bank that thinks £1.5 billion UK pounds is pocket money (about $2.5 billion US). A bank of that size has to operate squarely within Visa and Mastercard's rules.

The chargeback still happened.

[ytswy]

You may have a bad merchant account provider. That makes it a problem if you won't switch, not a problem for everyone.

We've had the same is PCInk and been told flat out that shipping to the billing address doesn't cover us. That was with a merchant account provided by a major UK high-street bank.

[MrHard]

Sounds like you are shipping internationally from the UK to the US? I meant to comment only on US to US shipments. International shipping or UK shipping is a whole new can of worms, not sure of UK regulations. We usually don't accept credit cards at all for international, only bank wire transfers.

[dickbaker]

If I get an order where the name and address verifies, but I'm still suspicious, I'll call the customer's credit card company and have them call the customer to make sure he/she actually placed the order. This puts the customer on record as having approved the charge, and also eliminates the possibility of fraud. I've had a couple of orders where the card holder did not place the order and didn't approve it.

[PCInk]

Sounds like you are shipping internationally from the UK to the US?

No. UK to UK.

AVS matching does not protect you at all.

I give an example:
Real address is 10 Somewhere Street, London, W1 1AA
Frauster uses the address 10 Other Street, Edinburgh, E1 1ZZ

In the US:
Real address is 101 Long Street, Beverly Hills, 90210
Frauster uses 101 Short Avenue, Beverly Hills, 90210

Both of these AVS results match in full. This is because AVS only matches the numbers, not the letters in the address and you can see the numbers are the same, the addresses are different.

This is why they don't protect you on AVS matching.

[MrHard]

This is why they don't protect you on AVS matching

They do in the US, as long as the different shipping address is noted on the charge you are protected, someone still has to sign for it however. The billing address matches AVS the shipping address does not match anything.

You only have to show your processing receipt that says exact match to be covered. They don't get into why or why not it was an exact match since you are just submitting a legal type document and don't have anyway of knowing that it is not matching. Analyzing why the system is or is not matching is an internal bank problem which I can't imagine them asking a merchant about.

If they do in fact use the excuse of the number matching but not the street then you right, there is no way of really protecting yourself other then going out on your own and calling or using other investigative methods.

I think Tonearm is in the US though since the post mentions city and states, but still insists on calling the customer when there is a AVS match.

[PCInk]

If they do in fact use the excuse of the number matching but not the street then you right, ...

"AVS verifies the numeric portions of a cardholder's billing address. For example, if your address is 101 Main Street, Highland, CA 92346, AVS will check 101 and 92346."

[en.wikipedia.org...]

[Lightguy1]

Put it like this, if you ship to an address other than the billing address you are screwed. The bank will always screw the merchant in a dispute. I have had rock hard electronic evidence, delivery confirmations, etc and they still rule against me. I even had UPS pull previous signatures to show that signature at the location matched a previous signature. In the end, banks that issue visa or mc will screw you. Amex is the safest in my opinion and rarely do I have issues with Amex.