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Help! My Credit card processing company wants to reverse transaction.

Innovative Merchant wants to reverse transaction. I already shipped product

         

radeckd

3:43 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In my business most of orders are between 1-2K USD. I had bigger orders in the past some up to 7K USD. Recently I received order for 11K USD and It's not fraud. Billing address matching shipping address, customer's name matches president of corporation I send product to. Company is pretty big and legit. I actually emailed them invoice and called thaem. They called me back with crdit card to pay for it. Everything perfect so far. I authorize credit card and next day after I shipped products, I charged credit card. Day after I received email from risk management of my card processing company asking about invoice, proof of delivery and customer inforamtion. I did send them that. It said in the email that batch with this transaction is under investigation and may be delayed. Understandable. Than about hour later I received another email askinf for all the things requested in first email plus my business bank statements. I did faxed it again. No word from the m for a week. When I call number they gave me, it is only voice mail there and they do not return phone calls. So I eamild person working on my case requesting status. She emailed me back 2 days later saying that my bank statements do not support (I don't know what?), and transaction may be returned. She said she wold speak with supervisor. How can they approve transaction and revers it even though customer did not dispute it? So far I have no product and no money. What can I do? It really hurts my cashflow. Thanks for any help.

LifeinAsia

4:06 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Contact the customer and have them contact their credit card company to work on it from their end.

Consider filing a complaint with the local authorities (in the state where your credit card processor is located). Not being able to speak to someone at a financial institution smells of either impending bankruptcy or fraud.

I would also be looking for a new credit card processor ASAP.

Upon second reading, these comments stand out to me:

I received email from risk management of my card processing company asking about invoice, proof of delivery and customer inforamtion.
Than about hour later I received another email askinf for all the things requested in first email plus my business bank statements.

Did you fax the information to the fax number they gave you in the e-mail or the fax number listed on their web site? Is the phone number you tried from the e-mail or from the company's site?

There's also a chance that you've been defrauded by a rogue employee in the company or by someone outside the company. You need to try some other phone numbers- either from their site or their domain name registration or their business registration.

radeckd

4:20 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I know emails from my Innovatiove Merchant are legit. I had to deal with them before. They are just very ignorant and rude when it comes to Risk Management. I think that transaction is still legit. Products I sell are mostly for businesses and order this large still seems perfectly normal fof commercial customer. Also Innovative Merchant was supposed to contact issuing bank and customer as a part of investigation. They did not say anything about transaction being unauthorized.

LifeinAsia

4:27 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Apparently you are not alone. I Googled "company name complaints" and found quite a few hits.

MrHard

4:57 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)



It sounds like the funds were deposited by mistake into someone elses bank account and they are still investigating.

Probably not much to worry about, bank account and routing numbers don't lie.

But somethings weird about the email stuff. Reputable places won't contact you initially for sensitive documents in that manner, but will do so by fax or mail only.

[edited by: MrHard at 5:15 pm (utc) on Aug. 31, 2009]

radeckd

5:13 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think they were trying to get some kind of avarage account balance for my business checking in case there is a chargeback for this transaction. They needed summary page only. Which in fact would not give enough inforamtion to determine avarege daily balance. Still, that is stupid since I do not keep more money on my business checking than necessary to keep my business running. All extra money would go to my savings or other investments. BTW person in charge of my case is really unprofessional. She doesn't know how to ask quastions. It like demands. Email from her look like this "i need 6 month business bank statement summary page only" and that's it. Not even "hello" or "please". No details also. Stay away from Innovative Merchant Solutions. It is a shame that company like this belongs to quickbook maker Intuit.

Rugles

7:03 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



BTW person in charge of my case is really unprofessional. She doesn't know how to ask quastions. It like demands.

Do the emails have that "Nigerian" type language? You know, LOTS of bad Grammar and misplaced Capitalization? ;-)

Have you googled their contact phone numbers to make sure you are indeed working with the CC processing company? I would be concerned this is a scam and you are giving them way more information than they would need to process your charge.

radeckd

7:18 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



No, I am sure I am dealing with Innovative Merchant. No doubt about it. I've been selling online for few years now and never had a chargeback. I do not get much volume but my items are expensive, so I am very careful when it comes to processing orders. This order is as perfect as you can imagine. There is no single red flag about it. Also I know I am dealaing with my credit card processing company, because I had small issues with them before. Also if you google them, you will see that I am not the first one with this problem. There is many complaints about Innovative Merchant out there. BTW, they do answer phone in general, but when I call extension of the person in charge of my case, there is no answer, only voice mail. I am able to get general information about my case like that it is under investigation, but no details.

LifeinAsia

7:18 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



BTW person in charge of my case is really unprofessional.

This is an issue that should be addressed with the person's supervisor.

Remember- YOU are the customer of this company. THEY work for YOU. You are free to take your business elsewhere. Try to adopt this attitude and refuse to let them walk over you. Call the contact numbers on the web site (or from other sources) and demand to speak to someone who has the authority and ability to do something. Whenever you get a "roadblock" (someone unable/unwilling to help you), demand to talk to that person's supervisor. Take names and document dates/times of calls along the whole process. Take it all the way up to the company's president, if that's what it takes.

If you still don't get any satisfaction, then it's time to start filing complaints with 3rd parties. Treat the situation exactly like what it is- the company took your money and refuses to return it or give you a valid reason. File a report with the local police department (yours and theirs). Contact their local BBB (probably worthless, but the more paper trail you have, the better). File a report with the FTC. Etc. Companies may ignore squeaky wheel customers, but when they have to start spending time answering complaints filed with the police and other agencies, they can be more willing to make the problem go away.

And, as I already recommended, look for a different processor.

LifeinAsia

7:20 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



BTW, they do answer phone in general, but when I call extension of the person in charge of my case, there is no answer, only voice mail.

Then immediately call back and demand to speak to that person's supervisor.

MrHard

7:29 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)



If you still don't get any satisfaction, then it's time to start filing complaints with 3rd parties

2 days? How long has it been? These things do take time. I would allow 2 weeks.

You remind me of customers who get nervous when an item does not ship out the next day, start making things difficult, and actually create more problems..

radeckd

7:40 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I want to wait with FTC, BBB, and Police for now. The batch has been dalayed for 5 business days as of today, so I don't want to rush it yet. Speaking with suparvisor will not help, but I will do it at some point. Supervisors there are as rude as everyone else. I still use them to process my payments. At this point they got me. I need every penny now to keep my business going. At least this one week, than I will have some more funds coming. I simply need them now and don't want to get into more problems at least untill I have new credit card processor. Is there any law allowing them to first approve transaction and than reverse it after I shipped products without request from credit card owner? Did anyone go through something similar?

LifeinAsia

7:44 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



These things do take time. I would allow 2 weeks.

There is no reason why it should take 2 weeks for the OP to get an answer about what is going on. They are withholding 5 figures of money with no explanation and no indication of when that money will be returned.

I'm sorry, but (No, strike that- I have no need to apologize) I have no tolerance for companies who hide things like that. Especially in these uncertain economic times. If they have a valid reason for holding onto the money, then they can explain what that reason is.

I've been burned too many times by playing nice. And there are countless other examples of bankrupt companies that got that way because they were too nice when it came to collections and demanding payment.

radeckd

7:50 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Like I said before, I am not rushing it yet, but simple updates on my case from them would be apprieciate. I just wanted to know if anyone here had the same problem. Also they treat me like I did something wrong, which I didn't. Having more sales because your business is growing is not a crime. Plus I've actually read merchant agreement, they have it there that they can set the limit for transactions on your account without informing you and charge you 5% fee if you go over. It is 11k USD so 5% would be over $500 plus already about 3% standard processing fee for commercial credit card. I don't want to do anything yet, since I am still witing for the result of investigation, but I just want to know what my options are. BTW thay have cancelation fee of $295 and they reserve the right to witheld some funds for p to 270 days in case of future chargebacks. This is when you decide to close your account.

LifeinAsia

8:46 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

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BTW thay have cancelation fee of $295 and they reserve the right to witheld some funds for p to 270 days in case of future chargebacks. This is when you decide to close your account.

What is the term of the cancellation fee? Or do you mean they charge that if you cancel at any time (even if you've been with them for 20 years)? What is your monthly fee? If you only have a few more months until you can cancel without a fee, I'd find another processor and keep your current account "open" (although charge everything with the new processor) until then.

You have to assume that if they do this to you once, they'll do it to you again. (As you and I have both pointed out, you're not the only one experiencing problems with them.)

If it were me, I'd eat the cancellation fee just to be done with them. I would also look into fighting the cancellation fee. But since it seems like they are not doing anything against their ToS, you probably don't have a case.

bwnbwn

9:12 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



You know it is reading post like this that makes me glad I am with a company that does business like it should.

Very sorry to hear about this mess I have never had a charge held up like this. Jeeze all they have to do is make one phone call and the deal is done.

I am with LifeinAsia piss on them. I would call and demand action to be taken one way or another.

radeckd

9:32 pm on Aug 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Which company is it? I've been in the market for new credit card processing comapy.

Dr_Cards

3:58 am on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi, Radeckd! Can't tell you how much I feel for your situation. As an agent and co-owner of my firm, I sometimes get to help clients who have accidentally fallen into this situation.
Here's likely what's going on - and let me guess; this is with Innovative Merchant Services?
Your merchant account was underwritten and approved for CC xactions in the $2K - $6K range. Most processors have a "fudge factor" (that's a technical term!) that might allow the occasional $7K transaction to float through, as happened with you.
When a x-action comes through that's Waaaaay beyond the amount for which your account is underwritten, the processor's fraud or risk departments flag and alarm, and freeze the transaction.
I didn't see any mention, Radeckd, on where your agent is in this picture. This is where your agent or rep really earns her/his keep - in advocating w/ you to get this resolved.
Best resolution is what you've been doing, but it doesn't appear you have met with the best of results -- communicating with the fraud or risk departments, and let the associated underwriting department re-underwrite your account for the larger transactions.
If you've been a good client with Innovative and your monthly volumes and avg. tickets have been slowly but progressively increasing, it's not much of a go-ahead decision for someone to approve.
Worst-case, underwriting might ask you for 8 quarters of financials ... balance sheets, P & L's, cash flow statements. Then they re-underwrite you with a view of approving you for these larger transaction amounts.
Complicating factors for that approval decision might be: 1) your financials do not support your firm's ability to withstand a sudden $11K amount from your account in the event a large transaction was fraudulent (that's the RISK part!) 2)Your account has had something like 1% or greater charge-backs in the past; or 3) Innovative has attempted to pull fees out of your account and found it NSF.

Hopefully none of these are factors in your case, and this will resolve in your favor soon.

There are a couple of lessons here most any reader can learn from:
1) If you are a merchant like Radeckd and your account is underwritten for a certain transaction size (most processors at application look for an "average" ticket, and a "high" ticket amount ... this latter is the one that stung Radeckd, and in fairness to Radeckd, this can happen to almost any firm. It's important to NOT allow transactions more than about 10%> what you state will be your max. ticket, or your processor very likely WILL freeze the transaction, as Innovative did here.

2) Lesson for us in the field who rep. merchant services -- it's important to keep our merchants educated on such points as this, so they don't have their transactions frozen as happened here.

Again, Radeckd, I wish you the very best.

radeckd

1:00 pm on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't mind them investigating this charge. I did invastigate it myself before accepting this order. If they are afraid of chargeback, I don't even mind if they keep some part of it, whatever was over my normal limit, for let's say 90 days to protect themselves. What upsets me is lack of communication and the way they treat me. I run legit business. My history with them is at least very good. My monthly sales range between 35k-50k USD, I've been with them for 18 months and never had serious issue. No chargebacks. I think I deserve more than automated email saying that transaction is under review. I would simply like to know what they are reviewing, how long it will take and what are possible outcomes. Is this to much to ask? I want them to work with me, phone call would be also appropriate, not just short emails once in a whilethat look more like text messaage from the phone and don't answer my questions. If I did that to my customers, I would be out of business soon.

radeckd

1:15 pm on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Also, in letters I origianlly received they were saying only about possible delay to this batch. But now they send me email saying about possible reversal of whole charge. That isn't right.

Dr_Cards

1:51 pm on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I agree with you, Radeckd. A little phone communication here would work wonders. You haven't mentioned your agent. Do you have his/her phone number? Get them working on your behalf.
Next, if this is Innovative Merchant Services or whomever, GOOGLE their corporate sales office. Reach someone in Sales and explain your case. Sales people "get it." And, the Sales department picks up the phone.
Ask them if you can "hold" while they put you in touch with the head of their Risk or Fraud departments. Let them know you're an (obviously) reasonable merchant, but you need some resolution here. Remind them of your record there, and ask what must be done to process the transaction.

At least, this is what I would do if I were in your situation. I hope this helps!

HRoth

12:09 pm on Sep 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



You can't always get results by demanding to speak to a supervisor; I've had that experience myself, with my previous cc processor which was not Innovative Solutions. It was in particular with the Risk Management Dept., where the people literally refused to answer their phones. I even googled their names and they were known for refusing to answer or return calls. In fact I would not be surprised if they did not actually exist and were the equivalent of the circular file. They know that for most merchants, there is nothing you can really do about it. Getting another processor is a pia and people don't want to have to sacrifice the cancellation fee. In my case I was not bound by a contract, but I have read about plenty of people who were in a contract just like radeckd and were treated the same way. The processor I have now told me that I had a certain monthly limit. What happens if I go over it, I asked? They'll freeze your account, was the answer. I'll say one thing for the guys I have now--they are not normally crappy in the way they deal with me, not even the Risk Dept. folks.

The thing is, what are you supposed to do when a customer comes along who is legit and they want to spend way more than the average ticket, one that will put you over your limit? Are you supposed to tell the customer, "Sorry, I can't accept your order because it's beyond my limit"? That's not a good solution. Maybe one way to deal with it is to accept the charge and then call the risk management department right away and let them know it is coming down the pipe and you want to make sure everything is jake. Anybody try that?

Dr_Cards

3:04 pm on Sep 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



HRoth,
You are correct when you point out, "You can't always get results by demanding to speak to a supervisor." Sad to say, the attitude you describe in your post is all too familiar to too many experienced merchants. Thankfully, it is not universally true. Let's allow that these processing companies are businesses like ours -- they're trying to survive tough times by doing as much work w/ as few people as possible. These underwriting departments ( hereafter,U/W) aren't 'mean,' they're just overworked!

HRoth, you pose an important business question:"What's a merchant supposed to do when a customer comes wishing to charge way more than the merchant's max limit?"

You must explain to the customer that the proposed purchase is much larger than your business typically sees, so in this case you'll need to accept a wire transfer or a cashier's check from the purchaser's bank. That's tacky, I know, but it's the best, most immediate answer in the face of that business situation. I'm a sales guy, too. I know that 'moment' where the sale happens or doesn't happen. I "get it." Here's what else I know: Accept that big transaction, way above your max. limit, and you will end-up exactly in RADECKD's unfortunate position.

Here's what to do longer-term: If a merchant needs to raise their max. transaction limit, they should contact their processor and get underwritten for that larger maximum. U/W may request the last 6 month's business banking statements (so they can review avg. daily balance as well as amount of funds that a business has access to), or they may call for the last 8 quarters of financials. ( P&L, BAL, cashflow) The larger the firm or the larger the max ticket requested, the more the latter request is typical -- and expect also a request for the last 2 or 3 yrs' business tax returns.

U/W isn't being nosy or intrusive; they're doing their job. Two fast reasons why U/W needs this info ... 1) Is this business financially sound enough to take one to six "hits" at this higher Max. over the course of the next year, either because of dissatisfied customer returns or outright fraud, and still survive as a business? (When identities or card info is stolen, one fraud tactic is to quickly run large transaction amounts.) If U/W is comfortable with the business's financial depth, they'll approve the higher max. limit request.

Besides fraud, remember what's driving all this in the background -- the cardholder assurance program -- the right given us as cardholders to return product or obtain a credit-back of our money in the event we're dissatisfied with our purchase, up to a year after the purchase date. That's why sometimes U/W will call for establishing 'reserve' accounts -- so the processor can tap funds in the event of big-ticket (or multiple small-ticket) charge-backs.

What every merchant services underwriter learns on Day 1 of their job, is that merchants HATE reserve accounts! U/W's alternative is to verify the business's depth for handling one to six (?) large-ticket hits over the course of a year. There are some other technical considerations, but this response is running wayyy too long.

I submit another post that answers this question slightly differently.

Dr_Cards

3:22 pm on Sep 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Suppose RADECKD's business was such that s/he has a legitimate business need for occasional very high ticket CC transactions. An alternative to consider might be a high risk merchant services provider.

High-Risk merchant services is a different world. In high-risk, merchant is asking, and the high-risk provider is agreeing, to shoulder the risk of higher than usual charge-backs or an occasional fraudulent transaction. H.R. merchants are those who would be declined by the more familiar US merchant services processors. H.R. merchants expect a more rigorous underwriting process at the outset, and they expect to pay a higher percentage of the total transaction. How much higher varies by the degree of potential risk.

If you're thinking H.R. is just po^n sites and adult bookstores, think again. Airlines, cruise lines, time shares, direct marketing companies (MLM's), casino's, lotteries, and gaming; and high-ticket merchants -- all are examples of high-risk merchant categories.

radeckd

3:27 pm on Sep 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well, saying that transaction is too big for me or much bigger than usually, doesn't paint a good picture of your business. As a customer I would probably cancel my order and go to someone who is able to handle big purchases. What if I don't like the product, would I still be able to return it to this small merchant? Will he still be there when I need warranty service etc. ? Besides products that I sell are mostly for commercial use and many of my customers return to me when they need more or their business is expanding. I'm pretty sure that this customer will return too considering number of locations they have. Last thing I want is for them to think that they are dealing with small company unable to handle their needs.

Still waiting for some updates from risk management. Thanks to everyone trying to help me.

Dr_Cards

4:07 pm on Sep 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I hope you get a positive response from RISK, and soon. You seem like a nice person running a good business, and meeting w/ growing success.

Question: Are you w/ Innovative because of the QuickBooks integration?

[edited by: lorax at 5:32 pm (utc) on Sep. 2, 2009]

radeckd

2:46 pm on Sep 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It looks like they will let it through. I've just got an email that they are going to release funds. I don't want to celebrate yet. First I need to see it on my account. Thanks again for all help. I've learnt a lot of new things. BTW they told me that my monthly limit is set for 15k USD. Since the beginning I've been processing 30k-50k USD a month and never had a problem. I asked them to lift it coz it makes no sense keeping it that low. They refused it. They say that my financials do not support that. I guess I would have to keep like 50k USD balance on my business checking to support that. It makes no sense. This account pays no interests. I'd rather invest extra money somewhere else.

Thanks again to everyone here. Looks like sometimes you just need to be patient.

Dr_Cards

4:41 pm on Sep 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Radeckd,

I am pleased this is resolving satisfactorily for you! An option to consider, if you like: Shop around. In my experience there are many processors who would have a more common-sense U/W approach. If they were looking at 6 months' statements with no charge-backs, it seems probable from what you have said, that they'd approve you for $50K, with room for growth.