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Red flags for international orders?

This one from France

     

mt_biker

10:53 pm on Jan 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We received an above average order from France and, as always on international orders, I started looking for red flags and found two possibles:

- checking with Authorize.net I was able to see that the purchaser tried three times under a different card/different name to get their card authorized (same card each time), but in all three cases was declined. In one of those cases, the first and last names were reversed. Succeeded on first try with new card (and name).

- the IP address of the purchaser is 800km from the ship to address.

Usually, in my experience, the IP address and ship to address will match or be very close (we don't bother with countries like Indonesia or Ghana and many more).

Not sure what to make of the three declines before succeeding with a different card. Almost makes it seem legit as in "I know this card is good," even though it actually wasn't.

thorsten iceland

6:29 pm on Jan 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



What was the specific decline code for the first card?

This certainly fits the modus operandi of a carder, more than a legitimate customer.

If the declined card is not a similiar name (like a different family member), then I would be even more cautious.

mt_biker

7:48 pm on Jan 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Do you mean the AVS code (there is no decline code per se)? The AVS code was R on the declined card (AVS system was unavailable). The card that was eventually accepted was U (address information for the cardholder is unavailable).

Also, the name on the declined card is completely different than the accepted card. Both names are very strange (to my American ears)...definitely not French. Maybe Russian or Slovak.

topr8

12:02 am on Jan 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



i have found that a google search on the delivery address or parts of it can be fruitful.

topr8

12:03 am on Jan 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



... of course being english i said delivery but i meant shipping!

mt_biker

12:30 am on Jan 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Great idea. I'll have to add that to my bag of tricks.

Turns out to be a nice looking place :)

sleepy_eye

1:56 am on Jan 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We've had orders like one you describe. We usually call. Bad phone number, no one knows the person, or they don't know what they ordered, bye bye.

Rugles

2:49 pm on Jan 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Was it a different name on each try?

the first and last names were reversed

Not a good sign, people tend to know their own names.

thorsten iceland

5:18 pm on Jan 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



It's a shame that authorize.net provides a limited set of decline codes, i.e. CVV2/CVC mismatch, AVS error, or Invalid card number only.

It would be useful to know if this first decline was due to E-51 Not sufficient funds, E-04 Pick-up card; Capture for reward, E-43 Stolen Card; capture for reward, etc.

A phone call to try and contact the cardholder might help, as sleepy_eye suggests. But bear in mind that the phone number on the order may well not be the actual phone number of the cardholder.

In card-not-present transactions the liability is all on you as the merchant in cases like this. Many of our merchants will only ship if they have a signed authorization form from the cardholder in hand.

dublinmike

12:53 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If it helps, Orange (France Telecom) referrers are always very far away from our French office, like 800km or so to Paris.

janharders

1:05 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Not a good sign, people tend to know their own names.

and switching first- and lastname can happen, especially if the form on the website is in the "wrong" order (not the one you're used to) or uses field names that are not too clear. I have personally seen people enter "VISA" if you ask for "name on card" instead of "card holder", so I wouldn't take it for granted for people to get the right value into the right field on the first try ...

Essex_boy

2:48 pm on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member essex_boy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Im seeing more fraudulent orders recently doing similar things, beware and get rid of the order.

mt_biker

4:44 pm on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thought every one might want to know how this drama has unfolded so far...

Eight days ago we emailed the "French customer" and mentioned the multiple attempts to authorize under a different name and requested the full card number (less the final four digits) so we could add the shipping charges to their card since we do not store the entire credit card number on our servers.

We had pretty much decided to not fulfill this order but were curious to see what he might do. We never heard back and have canceled the order.

I suppose if you are a thief sitting at a computer with a stack of stolen credit card numbers placing orders for merchandise all day you might lose track of what you've done at some point :)

In the past I've engaged would-be thieves in email conversations, leading them to believe I've shipped their order, only to have them request more and more merchandise, including stuff you don't even carry. At that point you really do know...

This guy chose not to respond, but I think it's safe to say this order was not legit.

Thanks for everyones participation. It's an interesting thread.

JohnRoy

4:05 am on Feb 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



mentioned the multiple attempts to authorize under a different name and requested the full card number (less the final four digits) so we could add the shipping charges to their card since we do not store the entire credit card number on our servers.

If it may be added: maybe it WAS legit, and the person on the other side of the ocean decided to try their luck with your competition, who have (in their opinion) a better and quicker checkout process for international cardholders... The multiple attempts were for any reason but fraud.

You may have send them an email requesting a copy of the card (front and back), plus a recent bank statement (with the transactions omitted) and the issuing bank phone number. Or else you can't process the order due to security reasons (without offending them). Call the bank and verify. If it's a small order - don't take the hassle. If it's a big order, why loose a deal?

sleepy_eye

4:03 am on Feb 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We have been shipping to France for almost 5 years.
LASTNAME, firstname 99% of the time is how orders from France are filled out. But strangely, just France. I'm not sure if its their custom or how the name is imprinted on their credit card. If that helps any.

Habtom

5:15 am on Feb 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I second JR. I think you should develop a standard way of verifying the identity of the person when in doubt.

Asking for a copy of the front and back side of the card will help reduce a huge percentage of the fraud.
Display IP address of the person.

Or else you can't process the order due to security reasons (without offending them).

Dito!

tomda

6:02 am on Feb 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



@sleepy_eye - Well, I am French and despite all my efforts, I still do not know what Firstname and Lastname are. Somehow, for a French guy, the term Firstname and Lastname are very very confusing... And yes, we are used to "LASTNAME Firstname".

sleepy_eye

12:14 am on Feb 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



@tomda
Thanks for the insight. Makes sense now :)

MrHard

4:28 am on Feb 18, 2009 (gmt 0)



Any easy candidate for a wire transfer.
 

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