Can employees drop off packages after clocking out?

[Tonearm]

Does anyone know if (in the US) I can have an employee drop off packages at the post office on their way home after clocking out? I would think I can't, but I thought I'd ask.

[Quadrille]

Are you proposing to let them go early to compensate for their extra time going there and standing in line? How would that work with your clocking system?

[Shaddows]

Could you pay them a nominal bonus for extra duties undertaken?

[HugeNerd]

I am reasonably sure if I asked my HR department this question they would go into DEFCON 2..maybe even 1. I know they absolutely go berserk if they catch you eating at your desk and working while clocked out. Something about laws, OSHA, lawyers and suing.

My guess, while IANAL, is that you are looking at a whole host of problems if you attempt this. Having an employee clock out, get in their car, and perform work duties off the clock seems like ambulance-chasing-lawyer-legal-heaven. Of course, I speak in worst-case-scenario terms, but: Assume your employee hits someone on their way to the post office. The person who has been hit complains of back and neck pain...who do they go after? You? Your company? Your employee? All of you could be liable. If they're on the clock, it all falls under the umbrella of your company and its insurance policy. I would imagine its cheaper (compared to an instance where some misfortune occurs) and safer to let them stay on the clock and then call when they are done...or use a remote, web-based clocking system where they can clock out upon reaching home.

[Rugles]

Clearly the answer is ...... small companies yes ... big companies NO!

I have done it many times, sometimes I would leave early but other times no. My employer makes it up to me in other ways.

I can see big companies worrying about the liability. Lets say the employee gets into a car accident and somebody gets hurt. They would be liable for the injuries.

[Tonearm]

Small companies are exposed in that way the same as big companies though.

A remote clock-out mechanism is not a bad idea.

[Quadrille]

There's still the possibility of fights between insurers; if the employee drives their own car on company business, does that invalidate their insurance? Or the company's insurance?

You need to know!

Some questions are best left unasked ;)

[ssgumby]

As for a remote clock out system, that is what we use. Its a simple PHP based web app. It's called PHP TimeClock 1.4 ... and its free. Works very well with great reporting. Its the only timeclock we use ... it logs the IP so I can tell if someone trys to scam me ;)

[HugeNerd]

A remote clock-out mechanism is not a bad idea.

We use ADP Labor Management. It's a web-based app with both manager and employee settings. I only use it to log hours, so I'm not sure about the manager interfaces. Besides making my change my log-in password more often than I care to, I have no issues as user.

[Wlauzon]

All the comments about lawyers, OSHA, child labor laws etc etc are pretty much BS. While possible in theory, 99% of that crap is hype put out by HR managers as turf protection. It took them 15 years to catch Madoff, petty violations are pretty far down the list I would expect.

It has gotten so bad in some places that it defies belief, for example the I am sure that some cities spend more on lawyers, personnel to enforce all kinds of petty rules etc than they could possibly get sued for. All of this is just a rant, so ignore it.

The one single factor is that if he is on company time in his car, you might be liable for any accidents. But that would go for anything else also - such as him driving to a worksite.

[edited by: Wlauzon at 5:32 am (utc) on Jan. 14, 2009]

[MrHard]

Are you asking them to do it as a friend or as a boss?

Please make this distinction before you ask.

If you are asking them as a boss why not clock out for them later on, or ask someone else to do it? It would be a stretch, but you are stretching the rules anyway. If you are asking as a friend make sure (sue sure) that you are on very good terms and there is no implied "you have to" there somewhere.

[Corey Bryant]

Wlauzon did bring up a great point. If the employee is on the clock while driving, the company can be liable. Something similar like this happened to a company in Camarillo, CA years ago. And the employee was actually on a break, but on the clock. The employer was sued and lost (around a million). I remember this well because I was a manager at another small company. On the weekends I would sometimes leave and buy lunch for the employees. The owners requested I sign out and sign back in, even though I was on salary. This just helped to protect them in case I had a traffic accident

You need to check with your insurance to make sure that you would be covered if this happened. If taking the packages to the post office is part of the employee's job description, he / she should be on the clock.

I am not certain if the packages are just dropped off or if they need to be weighed etc so this would be a factor as well.

Any work though that the employee does, he / she should be compensated for it.

[Tonearm]

Thanks for your responses. This brings up another question. My employees pick up from the local mailbox center and drop off at the post office once per day. I did some research and I think "employer non-owned auto insurance" is what I need to protect me in this situation. I think it's part of a general liability policy. Has anyone else been through this insurance maze?

[HugeNerd]

All the comments about lawyers, OSHA, child labor laws etc etc are pretty much BS. While possible in theory, 99% of that crap is hype put out by HR managers as turf protection. It took them 15 years to catch Madoff, petty violations are pretty far down the list I would expect.

No doubt this is an area where we see the excesses of legislature, lawyers, and HR managers. And, while I'm all for reforming such inane policies, I would categorize this as an instance of "The absense of evidence is not evidence of absense." Meaning, just because they may never catch you, because they may never even try or care if they do catch you, why risk it? It's cheaper to do it properly and pay as you go than to get hit with some easily preventable lawsuit or fine.

[piatkow]

I am not in the US but from a contractural point of view there should be no problem about allowing for that time at the end of the working day. If your time recording system can't cope with people starting or finishing their contracted hours at a remote location then you bought the wrong one.

There are issues over insurance, use of private vehicles, and the actuall point where somebody finishes work if a significant journey is involved. For that you need to consult your insurer and your HR department (if you have one).

[Marcia]

The issue I can think of is with the employee's insurance company in the event of an accident. It no doubt costs more for a policy if a car is used for work, which has to be declared when the policy is written. So it's a question of liability and whose insurance would cover any possible claims should the need ever arise and the question come up of where the employee was going.

[HugeNerd]

The issue I can think of is with the employee's insurance company

...and with the employee. I am reasonably sure it is illegal to have a employee perform a work task off the clock. You could be wide open for major litigation if you send them out on a work errand, off the clock, and they get injured.