Forum Moderators: buckworks
1: Customers do not call the merchant EVER because they know they do not have a case for a refund so they call card company direct and simply say I did not authorize.
2: The merchant could produce a photograph of the card holder an IP track and blatant flat out proof the cardholder made the order but the bank WILL NEVER give the money back and this is why, because they are trying to keep the customer happy.
3: Banks and merchant banks LOVE chargebacks because they charge a fee to the merchant for it this is how they make their money my products are $3.95 to $50 and I still lose the product and have to pay for the privaledge.
4: Times have changed its easy to trace an order hell run the customers email address and you will no doubt see their cheesy face on MySpace.com
5: I have arguedwith VISA end even the cardholders bank it gets you no where.
6: I have pinpointed an address of delivery I have traced an IP hell I even caught one guy out that charged back a flower delivery to his nurse girlfriend that worked at a local hospital how did I get my money back I told him he had 15 minutes to bring me double in cash or I would have the fraud squad march into the hospital and arrest his girlfriend. I told the visa company my merchant bank what happened they still did not care less.
Bottom line is as long as the banks charge the merchant a charge back fee and the card holders bank decides who gets the money thet merchant will always lose.
[edited by: engine at 7:48 am (utc) on Aug. 6, 2008]
We then told her to pay the order by wire transfer.
Two lessons we learned from that:
1. Don't count on the credit card companies. I believe in many cases they don't even review the evidence you provide them.
2. If a credit card payment is disputed start collecting the money yourself. At once.
And always remember: If your dispute is declined that does not mean you don't have a right to your money. A credit card company is not a court that has the right to decide if you have a rightful claim. There are other means of making customers pay. Go to court if necessary. Don't give up so easily.
Also: If the customer is not satisfied with the goods you delivered this does not mean he has a right to keep them for free. If the customer does not return the goods and makes a chargeback it is fraud. Get the police involved if necessary.
Very unfair for sure - IMO there should be a set of rules that if followed should place the burden of cost on the bank, which would probably need to share it out evenly over charges taken from buyers and sellers.
2. If a credit card payment is disputed start collecting the money yourself. At once.
I agree.
I now class chargebacks the same as any other failed payment, such as a stopped cheque. Forget the card company, call in a debt collector.
The reason why your response was declined even though customer agreed is because the bank will not look at your response all internet orders are declined automaticaly by default to save the bank time, the bank its self just wants to make their customer happy, they them selves get no money out of it so there only interest is their customer.
The merchant card processor makes around $35 charge back fee so they are not interested in anything other than the fee which they strip directly from your account and they simply forward stuff to the bank.
I spoke to a girl one time in a cardholders bank on one occasion because they declined my response even though I had the customer fax me an ID and a signature authorizing it was ok, the girl admitted to me of the record that the banks very rarely even look at the responses from merchants if its an internet/phone order.
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[edited by: ChargeBackDragon at 2:59 pm (utc) on Aug. 6, 2008]
Merchants should not be billed a fee or charged back if:
1: A customer loses a card
2: Forgets an order
3: Does not bother reporting a lost or stolen card
4: Tries to scam a merchant
5: Has stated they contacted merchant when they have not.
NOTE: In fact I have had about 50-100 charge backs over the last 5 years all said they contacted me not one ever really did as my call center records all numbers and emails.
The only time a charge back fee should occur to a merchant is when a merchant does not send an item or an item is not what was ordered a merchant should never have to pay because of a ciustomers missuse of a card.
Try a new merchant account provider. They are not created equal. I have not had a chargeback except for true fraud in over a year. My previous merchant account provider - they were so chargeback happy.
Try a new merchant account provider. They are not created equal. I have not had a chargeback except for true fraud in over a year. My previous merchant account provider - they were so chargeback happy.
ChargeBackDragon -- I agree completely with sun818. My merchant account provider could not be more supportive. I routinely win chargebacks. I have had the same provider, processor, bank, etc. since my web company's inception in 1998. Chargebacks have gone down every year while order number, value, any real sign of growth and increased activity, have steadily risen. I have developed a relationship with everyone involved in the chargeback process -- if I make a mistake, I admit to it and credit the customer back and then note it on the chargeback dispute form. I then call the customer and the provider, banks etc. to explain and follow-up. Once they get it through their heads that you are legitimate, that you correct errors without the banks being involved, they are willing to work with you to resolve problems; not despite you as you are suggesting.
In fact I have had about 50-100 charge backs over the last 5 years
That may be your biggest problem and why you get ignored. Any bank that sees you carry around so many black marks will red flag you on every purchase.
Is such a large number of chargebacks common for others on this board? I think I have had 1 so far this year (out of about 10,000 orders); my customer also did not recognize the charge on their statement and processed a chargeback. I disputed and won as my customer contacted their bank and asked for the chareback to be dropped.
I am not intending to attack you ChargeBackDragon, but maybe something in your procedures is amiss? Or is fraud/chargeback rampant in your industry/niche?
Maybe my own relationship with my processor, provider, and banks is unique?
OTOH, it is not all skittles and beer for the customers either. The cc companies are not just screwing us or even mostly screwing us. They are mostly screwing their customers with their various fees and their interest rates. I myself haven't had a credit card since 1985, and I don't intend to get one either.
All depends on what your product is, I am in software it started of in the begining one or two sporadic charge backs but as you grow it becomes more rampant..
My charge backs are not complaints they are I do not recognise charge or I did not order all of which will say they contacted me and I refused to talk to them or no one answered or they have tried to resolve all of which is not true none of the customers ever contacted my service line, this is because many crooks on the web have discovered the loophole of free stuff by charge back this is why they never bothered contacting the company.
Another amusing fact is that some will complain to their card company and I will get a letter stating consumer states he necer ordered an XYZSoftware the letter will specify the software but the funny thing is the company name does not depict the exact version or type of software bought but many will name the exact version they downloaded.
Still the bank will not refund.
You may be lucky on your chargeback results but there again I do not know what it is you sell could be a collectors club repeat business who knows but what is a fact I am not the only one getting charge backs my ratio of sales to losses obviously exceeds otherwise I would not keep going.
If my chargebacks shouted 'Not what I ordered' or Did not receive you may have a point but mine all state lost card or did not order.
I have had people call up and say they accidentaly ordered software and were just browsing and did not mean to even though they have to jump through 3 screens enter credit card and a confirmation and then download.
I also had just recently a woman order download then send an email stating she just noticed her credit card had been charged $55 and she did not authorize we asked how she knew because charge only went through 5 mins ago and her statement would not have shown the web address..
She said her bank calls her and informs her everytime there is a charge and she wants the money back when we pointed out the fact she mus have ordered she said ok fine I will call my bank and charge it back I have never heard of you.
Luckily on that one we called her bank first and they red flagged the account and our complaint, she tried she failed.
