How to accept ALL payments for an unusual site

merchant account paypal direct deposit

[jdopierala]

Hey,

OK, I'm starting up a website like eBay.
Except there are no auctions and users can buy, sell, and barter.

The other main difference is that when a seller sells an item, the buyer pays MY company.

I would like to be able to accept Paypal, Credit Cards, and Direct Deposit. How can I do this? I DON'T want Paypal processing the credit cards, as they are expensive AND owned by eBay.

Also, since users are generating the content/items how does that integrate? What do I use... would Google Checkout work? I would prefer if users didn't have to leave my website... But if they do, somehow code needs to be written back if the user completes the payment, b/c if they just go to the payment screen and then click off... the item should stay available for others to purchase/barter for it.

Any suggestions? I don't think I want a shopping cart, but how else can I accept everything I want to accept and do it securely?

In case your wondering, on the flip side, after collecting the cash I transfer the seller the money (minus fees) as fake cash. They can request the money at any time at which time we will immediately mail out a check. However, if they keep it with us there are incentives, and they will also not need to enter in credit card info the next time they purchase something.

My site is being programmed in Django/Python.

Thanks for your help!
Justin

[flyerguy]

Clickandbuy - they have really improved lately, and are used by Itunes, Electronic Arts, etc.

They also have a wider range of countries and payment options than paypal.

[edited by: lorax at 11:39 pm (utc) on Mar. 31, 2007]

[jdopierala]

Hey thanks,

I just checked them out and I like what I see.

What are their fees like? It sounds like it's different per company... but around what do they charge for processing credit cards (fixed fee and percentage fee)?

Thanks,
Justin

[flyerguy]

AFAIK,

2.9% + 30 cents on all transactions over $2
5% + 5 cents on all transactions under $2

but don't quote me on that, you're right they don't post it upfront so it may differ depending on volume (I'm sure Itunes gets a sweeter deal).

On a $10 sale I get to keep 20 cents more than Paypal.

I just visited them on my trip to NY (it started in Germany, but the US branch is doing quite well now too). Very friendly people, small team, plus they just got a big heap of venture capital so you can be sure they're not going away anytime soon.

I soured on Paypal after 5 years of giving them my business, and they had the nerve to resolve a $150 transaction dispute against me recently - I contracted some programmer to do some work, he did no work, programmer gets to keep my $150, irregardless of the fact that I am verified with 1000+ confirmed buyers and no disputes ever. Just goes to show you're just an account number with Paypal.. Clickandbuy is more personal.

[jdopierala]

With Clickandbuy, do people need to actually open up an account with them or can people use credit cards without having to sign up? That is the only downside that I see... with Paypal, most people already have an account.

What is your website? I'd like to take a look at it.

-- Justin

[jdopierala]

I'm curious how it's cheaper than Paypal though... Paypal is 1.9% - 2.9% plus $0.30 per transaction. Seems to me like Paypal would be the same cost at < $3000 and cheaper if you are doing > $3000 a month.

[paypal.com...]

-- Justin

[flyerguy]

They have a method similar to Paypal Payments pro - I haven't tested it yet so i'm not 100% sure how it works, but it was described as being able to process customers payments, without making them sign up for an account.

All I know about the Paypal transaction fees is that on a $10 sales i'd be left with $9.28, whereas with Clickandbuy I net $9.38 after fees are taken off (slightly less than what I originally stated, but definitely better than PP).

Were currently working on replacing Paypal with Clickandbuy on my sites, nothing much to show yet, just a couple product pages with basic Clickandbuy buttons. We're interested in retaining the customers info on our site (I.e. creating them an account with our site), so this requires a bit more complicated dynamic transaction.. i.e.:

customer clicks buy button > taken to Clickandbuy > pays > taken back to our site (with basic POST variables like name, email, etc. > our site OK's the transaction and creates a user account based on the info received

[pp_rb]

when a seller sells an item, the buyer pays MY company.

Keep in mind that if you do this, you will be liable for any chargebacks and complaints filed by buyers.

[Beagle]

After reading this thread, I checked out ClickandBuy as well as some of the sites using it, and it does look interesting - especially all the currency options.

As far as the OP's question, though, it seemed to me that ClickandBuy only deals in non-tangible goods: downloads, donations, site subscriptions, pay per minute. Am I missing something?

[jdopierala]

What if we specifically say that we are NOT liable for fradulent activity and all sales are final. If a person requests a chargeback from their credit card company we simply point to our policy that it is buyer beware.

Would that work? I would think that as long as that is perfectly clear, (like it would be at a rummage) my company shouldn't be liable for any chargebacks.

[ytswy]

Card companies are normally very willing to grant chargebacks - they tout fraud protection as a major selling point, and generally don't care who ends up paying for it as long as it's not them or their customers.

In other words, unless you can get explicit, prior agreement from your payment processor not to grant a chargeback in these circumstances, I think you'd be likely to lose any disputes if an item is paid for but not delivered.

[jdopierala]

Since a user is actually purchasing "fake dollars" we could make it explicit that the person is really only purchasing the fake dollars. Those dollars are then used to pay for the product. Therefore, the payment they made with the credit card was indeed given to them and we can explicitly prove that they did in fact receive the fake dollars after the credit card transaction.

If the person does not receive the product - which they purchased with the fake dollars, then we are not liable.

?

[pp_rb]

I'm not sure, but selling "fake dollars" via PayPal may require special approval - please refer to the "Money Service Businesses" section of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy.

Additionally, I suspect that regardless of how you set up your site and whatever disclaimers you provide, you will have some chargebacks claiming unauthorized card use, non-delivery of goods, and items not as described. I can't guess how likely an issuing bank would be to overturn those if you dispute them, but for any of those cases you could end up losing money that has already been paid out to your sellers. Any business processing credit card payments faces some risk of chargebacks, and if you do not want to be the one liable for those, I strongly encourage you to make sure buyers are paying directly to the sellers who are responsible for fulfilling the purchases.

[RailMan]

>>What if we specifically say that we are NOT
>>liable for fradulent activity and all sales
>>are final. If a person requests a chargeback
>>from their credit card company we simply point
>>to our policy that it is buyer beware.

doesn't matter what you say, YOU are liable for any chargebacks

[edited by: RailMan at 8:00 am (utc) on April 4, 2007]

[jdopierala]

I'm not so sure.

Obviously I will make sure, but if we explicitly state our policy, it should cover us on non-delivery of goods and items not as described. Customer disputes it, and we just should show the credit card company the explicit statement/policy that will be impossible for the customer to not read.

Therefore, we should only be liable for chargebacks on unauthorized card use, which is fairly easy to limit.

[ytswy]

I think you're going to be disapointed. Remember you need them far more than they need you - if you don't accept cards you go out of business, if they don't accept you they're not going to notice. This power imbalance is the basis of the relationship you have with your merchant services provider.

I'm sure you'd win a legal dispute with your disclaimer, but I really doubt you'll win an "our way or the highway" dispute, which is what a chargeback pretty much is.

Really the only people who can answer your question is your payment processor - if you can get agreement in writing not to process chargebacks in this situation then great, but my feeling is you'll get a flat No from someone 3 levels below the person who could actually make a decision.

[RailMan]

>>I'm not so sure.

if a customer is paying you, it is you that loses the money when a chargeback happens
thats all there is to it - nuff said - full stop - accept it

[jdopierala]

The customer isn't mine.

I am simply collecting the money and giving it to the seller. This lowers transaction costs for everyone and makes the site incredibly cheap to use.

So technically the customer isn't paying me. They are still paying the seller, I'm just collecting the money to make the process cheaper for everyone involved.

[ytswy]

I think you're missing the point - this isn't about being right, it's about convincing a bank to make an effort to accomodate your business model.

You need to provide a banker with the promise of a really serious amount of money before that's going to happen.

[RailMan]

>>The customer isn't mine ... So technically the
>>customer isn't paying me. They are still
>>paying the seller ....

You walk into a shop and buy a shirt - you get home and find it's damaged - so you take it back to the shop
shop says "hey, not our problem, you didn't pay us, you paid the company that made it and they're in india so go after them for the refund"

is that gonna wash with you?

time to get real here - if you're collecting the money, the customer is yours and you are liable for any refunds. full stop.

[Essex_boy]

when a seller sells an item, the buyer pays MY company. - what about money laundering?

Is this something you should be aware of?