I do not however own the domain name itself, the agreement was to receive additional money based on the site building traffic, which it has done. Though no money has come.
The rub is that the owner of the domain does not contact me but has renewed the domain. I generate money from the site though ad placement and affiliations.
The questions is how should I take this?
Should I buy a new domain and stick the database on my own domain, thus avoiding the situation of the domain owner simply changing the DNS in future, if indeed that would happen. I have become used to having this income stream and would not be happy to loose the hard work and effort.
If I did buy a new domain and transfer I understand all links would not function, so I'd have to have some way of temporarily transferring the traffic, maybe .htaccess? And also contact each site backlink in order to notify of the new domain.
And advice on this one would be greatly appreciated, there is no contract.
Thanks
1. Register a new domain name, and point it to a new hosting account.
2. Copy the old site/database to the new host.
3. Set the old host to use 301 redirects to send all traffic to the new host.
4. Contact everyone who links or advertises with you and have them update to the new domain name.
The danger is still that he could deactivate the old domain before all the traffic has moved to the new one.
How would I go about setting up a 301?
But one step I suggest adding to the above:
2.5. wait for new site to appear on search engines
This will prevent your content from getting blacked out from search engines for 8 weeks. Google deletes old 301'ed pages from its results much, much faster than it adds the new pages.
2.5. wait for new site to appear on search engines
True, true.
Just one thing, would the new site not get stung for dup content?
What you are actually doing is "stealing" the business away from the "legal" owner. I put it in quotes because I do not believe it to be true, but legally it is a chargeable offense for this scenario. You should try and avoid being in such a "chargeable" situation, of course.
I suspect the real reason you are advised to avoid taking ownership of the domain name is because that can be legally challenged easily. There is precedent, and a mechanism (ICAHN) and case law etc. So people advise you to steal the business instead (there is little case law, precedent, ICAHN is not involved, etc). It would be HARD to undo what you do with your 301s, which is a further deterrent for the current legal owner. But there is plenty of case law for theft and unfair business practice and all that stuff.
A GOOD lawyer will ask if you have any documentation that shows the owner is aware that you make money from his site. Is there any evidence of an agreement that you may change the site at any time, as you see fit, without his approval? Is there proof that he has been aware in the past of you making big changes like this one, and he was ok with it or deferred to your judgement or even better thanked you for proactively managing the site. Is there evidence of his making money from the site (such that if you 301'd it, he would cease to make money from it). Is there documentation (correct or not) of his plans (original or current) for that domain?
These questions can establish a framework upon which you might effectively "steal away" his business to your own domain, virtually free of any liability (or at least in a way that would be very expensive to pursue). Based on the answers, you may need to elicit some emails or comments from him first, for example.
Of course I AM NOT A LAWYER and as I suggested, a consult with a knowledgable one might be worth while if this is a worth while project$$. I have not found such a lawyer yet for my small-middle sized projects, but I am able to work with a regular business lawyer. I can guide on the technology aspects, and when you boil it down it is pretty much the same business law.
One more caveat: this post of yours on WebmasterWorld appears to demonstrate your intent, and that is not helpful to you. Were I up against you in a legal battle, and I discovered you had discussed this in this way up here (as I might discover when doing a court-approved forensic analysis of your computers, without warning or permission from you), I would use it to make a case for your intent to harm my client. That changes everything and throws out alot of plausible deniability you might have gotten from all those questions the lawyer asked you. No matter what the appearance, if there is a witness (you discussed it over coffee with someone) or evidence that you intended to steal business or money away from a legal owner, you are toast, and perhaps even liable for additional damages.
Sorry for the serious tone, but I have been there and while I may enjoy the complexity and analytical nature of all of this fun techno-society stuff, it is not usually pleasant for any of the parties involved.
The fact is nothing existed (in terms of a site) before I built it.
Anyway thanks everyone.
the agreement was to receive additional money based on the site building traffic
Did you agree to do the work FOR the domain owner?
Are you "renting" the domain, or are they just letting you use the name?
Do they get any money from the site?
These types of questions help define the contractual relationship between you and the domain owner, even without a contract.
As has been suggested, have a sincere talk with an attorney who works in the areas of intellectual property, employment law, and particularly cyber law.
In California, if you answered "yes" to questions #1 or #3, then you would literally be "stealing" the owner's property if you moved to content to another domain and redirected visitors away from the original.
I've been in this situation before, and in the absence of a legally binding contract (whether on paper or orally, depending on your state laws), your best bet might be to simply start over with your own domain, and use the lessons you've learned and the contacts you've made to create a better, more profitable site than the original. Simply abandoning the old in favor of the new might be your least-expensive option.
Sux, but you gotta get that contract signed if there is business to be done. I'm sure you'll be getting a contract before starting your next venture, right? :)
Good luck.
I agreed to build the site framework for a set fee. That was done and paid for over 12 months ago.
The agreement was to be paid a monthly support fee, for which I have not recieved for the 12 months, even though I have built the site up.
"Are you "renting" the domain, or are they just letting you use the name? "
I'm just using it.
"Do they get any money from the site? "
They get zero money from the site.
I am in Europe.
The site is hosted on my server. I feel I will take the advice given and simply start a new project with what I have learnt with this one.
So the question is now, do I simply dump the site off my server? Try to contact them to see if they want it moved somewhere? Should I charge them for that?
Thanks guys.
You agreed to set the site up and host it for a monthly fee.
The other person has not paid you the monthly fee.
It may be argued that the money you received from managing the domain content was in lieu of the fees.
You may feel free to cancel their hosting account with you, but the content could still be argued to be their intellectual property, as it is a kind of "business" for them, even if they don't get any money from it. (They provide the "store" name, you built the "storefront", it's still their "store".)
My humble suggestion is to offer to transfer or archive the existing content for them for a fee, because you will no longer be hosting their domain. Under no circumstances should they receive the copy of "their" content or its archive until they have paid you for the back-fees due for hosting their domain all this time.
If they don't want the content, then you're free do delete it. It's their responsibility to maintain an archive of their property, anyway.
They may agree to allow you to transfer the content to another domain in lieu of paying what they owe you. Also arrange with them to keep the old domain at your server during the transition to the new domain so you can attempt to keep your PageRank etc.
There are threads in these forums that explain how to best accomplish that.
Not much joy, but the legal ramifications are more easily seen, given your explanation. Of course, you're in Europe, so things may play out differently.
Much clearer now... and better for you.
The big problem is if you keep the domain and develop it, even along a completely different path, with completely different content, someday someone may sue you for part ownership. It will be much more painful to have to hand someone 30% of your milions later than migrate the traffic now.
Since no one is watching now, and you have no restrictions on how you manage the site, now is the time to slowly and carefully transfer all of the value to another domain. Do it carefully and slowly, and over time this domain will be worth exactly howmuch hey invested into it (the proof that you are not responsible). At that time you notify them about what youwant to do with their unpaid site, as per normal business practices. Because they are not in the business of menetizing it now, you are in a god position to move the value.
I would transfer the backlinks, pr, etc to a domain under a third party's name, which I could assume later, just to keep things obfuscated. I would do it based on priority, acting on those aspects that are hardest to get (most valuable to me) first. Analyse your afiliate accounts... how much would you lose by opening new ones? How many tiers are rewarded for the sales?
The key here is they are past due on their bills, so hey have defaulted on any reasonable agreements you may have had. They can still claim ownership of the assets, but not the operating revenues if you could show those revenues come from mnagement and maintenance (as opposed to relevance, existing traffic, type in traffic, offline branding, etc).
Small project, but interestng topic. I am pretty sure he thoughts expressed here will behelpful to other WebmasterWorld'ers.
Kind regards.
