Forum Moderators: not2easy
I have a couple questions i hope you can answer.
Q.1. If i have a *website name* that i want to protect from others claiming ownership on, can i use the *tm* symbol(trademark)without registering the mark?
>>My website logo is not a actual logo, it is a css created box type banner logo with the name only in text. Not an actual image.
*used a div.
>>Q.2. I read that you can't register your mark if it's just a sites name. If you don't register the mark and only use the *tm* mark as a identifier of the sites name claimed, is this alright to do?
>>>A product will be sold on the site, but it was not created by me so i can't say that the product was owned by the site. And so the trademark is not the products name.
>>>>>I do have the reseller rights though as the
product is a reseller type product that if you purchase the product online you get the right to resell it.
Ex.
>xyzwidget.com
>product: other company abc.
***All i want to do is protect the sites name as i've read about how other individuals try to claim they own your domain name and then try to get you to give it to them or else.
Q.3. How can someone protect their sites domain?
>Use TM on site?
Please help:)
Thank you all very much for your help:)
frenzy77
A trademark is a distinguishing label used for business purposes, to signify either your business or your products/services. A domain name is just the name of a web site, which may or may not also be a trademark.
There are detailed rules when a name or phrase will be considered a trademark. Among other things, it must be unique within a given market (industry and geograpical area), and not just a generic term describing the products or services sold (as an example: "Pocket PC" by Microsoft is not a valid trademark).
There are other restrictions, but the short version goes like this: If you are using a qualifying name in your business activities, then it automatically becomes a trademark. Using a (tm) doesn't change anything in the status, it just documents your claim that you consider the word your trademark. Registering it and using a (R) solidifies that claim, and makes it easier to enforce.
Q1: The information given in this question is irrelevant. See the simplified explanation of the qualification criteria above.
Q2: Again, the information given is irrelevant. If a name qualifies as a trademark then it can be registered as such.
Q3: By paying your registration fees in time... ;)
If I understand the motivation behind your question correctly, then you shouldn't think about the domain name first. Think of a name for your business, and establish it as a trademark (with or without registration). Then use that business name as your domain, to extend the protection to the name of your web site.
So if i already have a name for the business i should
use that?
For example if the field of business was "cars"
then i would call the website something like:
>autowidget.com
Is this what you mean?
Q.2. And then use the *tm* in the logo on the site?
Q.3. If i did this will i have claim on my domain name?
Thanks for your help bird:)
I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
frenzy77
In a case of dispute, courts will find your trademark claims much more credible if you can show paper correspondence where that name appears in the letterhead.
I am sorry if i am being bothersome about this subject, but i would like some more clarification.
I would like to mention that i do not have a "business". The only business i will have is going to be *online* You said that the name of the trademark was for use with the products, but if the product is a digital download that was purchased and i was given reseller rights...
So, then the product can not have the trademark because i don't own it?
Q. Therefore can i still claim tm on the website.
Q.2. Also you said that using TM "just documents your claim that you consider the word your trademark."
>Q. If i merely claim TM on the website as
the trademark only for the name because i don't have
products that will have the name of the site can i do this?
For example, i have creditwidget.com
and i obtain information that can be distributed through download. This download is not mine to claim ownership on, only reseller rights.
>Then i can't claim TM on this product?
(different name on the product.)
Q.3. So can i just claim TM on website for protection?
Q.4. Also, can i claim TM on the website name and submit this information of tm claim on a internet press release website and not as a registered claim?
**This would be to document the TM domain name for protection.
>>Will this help protect my claim on the website name as you said that TM "only documents your claim that you consider the word your trademark."?
>>I really only want protection from individuals that try to take your domain name at any cost.<<
On this site their was someone stating that people were trying to take ownership of their domain name by threatening them.
Well,...
Thank you very much again for your great help:)
I appreciate your helpful answers.
Thanks again:)
frenzy77
It doesn't matter whether you have an incorporated business. As soon as you try to earn money, you perform business activities, which is all that trademark law cares about.
I'll repeat for clarity: You need to be able to prove that you have been using the name in question for doing business. Marketing material (eg. the content of your web site) may document such use. But paper based material probably has more weight. I already mentioned the letterhead in your correspondence, etc.
Q. Therefore can i still claim tm on the website.
Trademark is about names. The idea to "trademark a website" is absurd. It's important to be very accurate about the use of words in this kind of discussion. If you confuse the words, then you're likely to also confuse the concepts.
Then i can't claim TM on this product?
See above. There cannot be a trademark on a product, only on a name.
One theoretical possibility would be to rebrand the product under your own name.
If that isn't possible, then you need to establish a name that stands as a distinction for your services.
can i claim TM on the website name
Once again: The use of a name as a domain name for a website is not sufficient to establish a trademark. You need to be able to document related business activities.
submit this information of tm claim on a internet press release website
Press releases may or may not help, but I don't think that they alone already count as "business activity".
I really only want protection from individuals that try to take your domain name at any cost.
Any danger to your name comes from businesses, not individuals.
Does your desired name infringe (even only potentially) on anyone elses trademarks?
Thanks again for your help.
I appreciate your informative replies.
To answer your question, no i don't think my site name infringes on anyone elses name. Before purchasing the domain I checked it through several engines and at the registration site.
Came up with nothing.
Q.1.>>
So what your saying is i can have the trademark claim if i am operating a online business that has to do with what i am offering for sale. And to proof this for registration purposes i could submit to the registration a few copies of the website pages showing the product information, pricing, etc. and possibly some business cards i create with my website
name on them and also include some advertising flyers
for proof?
Q.2.>>Is the claim only to document the site as a business in operation selling a product as a service?
For example:
I have
>>creditwidget.com
and the site sells information on credit.
Q.2.>Then this is enough to claim trademark for this business operating online?
Q.3. Is the above example unique enough for a claim?
>>The first term is possibly generic but the "widget" part is quite unique. So when placed together there
seems to be nobody using this entire phrase.
(it does state what the product is most related to.)
Q.4. Does the name have to be unique and exact enough? Meaning as in the above example it is
going to be credit with an additional word "widget".
>>Does the name have to be exactly what the product or service is?
For example:
xyz-widget-consultingservices.com
>>or is this just overdoing it?
Q.5. If i do not register this trademark, and instead just use the TM on the website is this enough to document the claim and should i use a press release to inform the public of it's trademark ownership?(only if i do not register it.)
Q.6. The business name is separate from the product name, so if i don't own the product the claim is still enforced based *only* on the business name in operation selling a product? The business in operation selling a product is what is necessary to obtain claim?
Q.7. Can i still get the claim if i am operating the site as a business selling the product but i don't
own the product and only can resell it?
Thank you for your patience with me and your help:)
I am trying to understand the separation between product and trademark.
Again thanks for your help. I appreciate your helpful
replies:)
frenzy77
A trademark is a name (in the simplest case).
If the topic is really that crucial to your operation, then you should probably consult a trademark attorney. As a start, you can also study the related information from the USPTO: [uspto.gov...]
I have been studying the information at the link you supplied. Thank you for all your helpful replies:)
Thanks again.
frenzy77
Registering superwidgets.com gives you "superwidgets.com" as a form of trademark.
What it does not automatically give you is a trademark on "superwidgets.net", "superwidgets" or "Super Widgets". If you want to try and protect any of the broader versions, then pay a lawyer to get a registered trademark on "Super Widgets" which will protect you frmost other variations that were not in use before you registered your mark.
Also, i read that i should do a whois lookup on the domain and print that record up for proof of ownership of any domain. This would serve as proof if any individual ever needed some. And also that you should print up records of the purchase of the domain.
Q.1. Will this be enough to stop someone from trying to take a domain from someone? I've read that some people use threats to take your domain and don't even have any claim on anything.
Q.2. If this ever happened to someone, how would you know if they had any real claim and would you respond to the email or would you wait for some other response?
It would be a waste of money if they were lieing and someone went to talk to a lawyer would'nt it?
Well thanks for help:)
I appreciate your response.
Thanks again.
frenzy77
might want to have a look here: [uspto.gov...]
and here: [uspto.gov...]
and to save you a bunch of time you want to search and see if your TM already exists here: [tess2.uspto.gov...]
incidentally if your having problems sleeping just read all the Trade Mark documentation, you'll be out like a light.
But if you own your domain first, then there is a good chance that they will find themselves losing their trademark status if they pursued you.
For example, Linus Torvalds owns the "Linux" trademark in most countries.
If you decided to start up linuxrumors.com, and purchased that domain, you would own an implied trademark on "linuxrumors.com".
But your implied trademark contains Linus's previously exisiting, registered trademark. He could take you to court (which he would almost certainly not do) and have that domain taken away from you for using it without his permission.
But if you had registered that domain in 1989, it would have predated Linus's use of the name linux, and he would have no claim on you.
Of course, none of the trademark arbitration rules that apply in the rest of the world seem to apply in France, so all bets are off there.
Yeah that was a strange case and the runour here in the States was Madonna made nice donation but wanted it to look like she raked a Conveant over the coals.
What if someone claims infringement?
Q.1. If this ever happened to someone, how would you know if they had any *real* claim and would you respond to the email or would you wait for some other response?
It would be a waste of money if they were *lieing* and someone went to talk to a lawyer would'nt it?
Well thanks for help:)
I appreciate your response.
Thanks again.
frenzy77
It would be a waste of money if they were *lieing* and someone went to talk to a lawyer would'nt it?
Not necessarily.
If your site is a business, it is in your interest to have a lawyer in your corner just to keep others from thinking they can push you around.
If your reply to them is "all future contact should be through my lawyer" will usually scare away those that think they will get away with blackmailing you. They are trying to scare you, you can toss some scare right back at them, and often times get them to pay your legal bills while you are at it.
I read that i should do a *whois lookup on the domain and *print* that *record up for proof* of *ownership* of any domain. This would serve as proof if any individual ever needed some.
>>And also that you should print up records of the purchase of the domain.
Q.1. Will this be enough to stop someone from trying to take a domain from someone? I've read that some people use threats to take your domain and don't even have any claim on anything.
Thanks for your help Big Dave:)
I do appreciate your help:)
frenzy77
If you want to protect your claim to your mark, it is absolutely necessary that you register it. Just using the TM symbol doesn't protect you because if push comes to shove you don't have a leg to stand on unless the mark is actually registered.
Registering the mark is not as easy as it sounds. The registration fee is expensive and you must submit it to the correct category or it will be denied (if it is denied you do not get your registration fee back).
Also, before getting ahead of yourself you need to back up...........there are two types of registrations, one is trademark and the other is servicemark. It sounds more like your website business performs a service, unless, as a reseller, you resell the product (in your case, the digital downloaded product) as a product of your company. Ask yourself these questions.... when the customer downloads the digital product, what name does the customer see on the product? Does your reseller rights include branding rights? Do you have at least 3 specimens of your mark used in business?
This whole trademark and servicemark thing is not cut and dry, that is why our lawyer is handling it for our business. Because of the fact that it is not easy to get your mark registered on the federal level, we are first applying for registration on the state level. After that is approved, then we will apply for the federal trademark.
Find a lawyer in your area that is experienced in trademark law, show him or her your specimans of your mark used in your business and then let your lawyer tell you what is best for your particular situation. It will save you a lot of money and headaches in the long run.
For much time there was a site called linux world dot com. The site had a tm symbol on the name linux world and had a disclaimer that they owned the linux world trademark while Linus Torvalds owed the linux trademark. The same publishing company owns several others "mybrand world com" domains on technology products.
I wonder if the use of trademarks in this scenario is "more legitim".
There is absolutely nothing you can do to keep someone from *trying* to take your domain. There are only things that you can do to decrease their chance of succeeding.
No amount of advice in a forum will be able to match the advice of a good trademark lawyer.
You might also consider going to a trademark workshop, or heading down to your library and doing some reading on your own. That will give you a much better understanding of what is going on than looking for some sort of assurance from members here.
>>Q.1. What if i'm the *first* to use the domain name
online? Is'nt it mine if nobody has claim on any
of my domain?
>>I have it registered through a gdaddy registration. So if that's not the case, then anyone can just try to take a domain by simply lieing and threateninga site owner? Does'nt seem right. Alot of sites are not registered on the internet. They too are in danger of a potential thief?
Big Dave, I will take your advice and try to speak to a trademark lawyer. Would you know the average cost of speaking to one?
Well thanks everybody. Your advice was very helpful.
Thanks again:)
frenzy77
