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Seizing the means of production

         

dulwich

6:16 pm on Feb 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Content and what it's worth?
Come from a print background myself. Realised v early on that content writing for websites would never compare for rate (would be v pissed off to be paid less than £220/thousand words for a print feature, not going to happen for online stuff v often unless you work for a big 'legit' publisher, eg sites for national newspaper or magazine). I continually read things on forums about paying $15 for a feature etc etc. I'm also constantly hearing webmasters agonising 'but where can we get LOTS of good copy cheaply', not to mention being buttonholed at WebmasterWorld conferences by people who hear I'm a writer and ask the same question. Why would I want to do that guys? Writing 16 hours a day for £50 so you can get rich?

But thinking laterally, it gives good, prolific writers a brilliant opportunity. No more publishers, no more employers, no more mediation of your copy if you don't want it. The writers are the people with the feature ideas ... it's our stock in trade to come up with them. So why be employed by a webmaster at $15 a pop? Do the websites yourselves, hook up with somebody with web design skills (you'll know designers from your work), go into partnership with someone with SEO skills (or work on them yourself. Instead of complaining about the rates of pay, if you're the boss you get the revenue.

hunderdown

7:04 pm on Feb 22, 2005 (gmt 0)



Yep. And there are many, usually small, websites following this strategy. It's what I do, as a part-time thing, and I am happy with it.

rogerd

7:41 pm on Feb 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member



The value of content is relative. A finely crafted direct marketing letter for a financial product might earn that writer tens of thousands of dollars. That same writer might do an article about copywriting for a few hundred. And a webmaster might find the article worth much less.

Certainly, if a writer has the business acumen to "forward integrate" to web site ownership, the potential rewards are greater. Of course, a good site isn't just content - a site owner has to deal with design issues, usability, driving traffic via SEO, PPC, etc. The business model, whether it is advertising sales, affiliate links, product sales, etc. has to produce more revenue than cost.

I think one possible model for gifted writers is a blog or community model. A writer with a distinctive voice and keen insights can develop a large following without having to homogenize the writing for SEO purposes. Of course, few bloggers turn a profit.

VegasRook

2:48 am on Feb 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




So why be employed by a webmaster at $15 a pop?

Because those people are not writers in the professional sense. If you care about writing, work to improve your prose, and/or do it for a living then you don't give your work away.

Most of the $10 an article writers pen at a high school level. Since the buyers of such work have about the same intellect and don't respect their visitors--it is a perfect union.

dulwich

8:43 am on Feb 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



But that's my point exactly Vegas. That if people have 'leveregable' skills (shurely not real word) then they need to put those to work, not be competing with the bottom feeders. My point is not for the people trying to decide which end of the pen to point at the paper, but for those who HAVE honed their trade. My post is prompted by my hearing/reading a lot of writers saying 'there's no money in writing on the web'. You just have to take control of the business yourself.

roldar

12:45 pm on Feb 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The problem I've run into with paying for content is that I never know what I'm going to get. I've had people show me some samples of some fantastic stuff, but then I shell out $0.225/word and I get some drab thing I could have spent an hour researching and writing myself.

Unfortunately I think some writers have too big of heads. They definitely have a way with words, but sometimes it takes a deeper understanding of what you're writing about in order to produce a good article.

I'm an expert in one field. I know the ins and outs of the field, which, unbeknownst to the average outsider, are rather complex. Unfortunately I don't have as good a way with words as my competitors do. So I go out and I pay a copywriter to work some magic. Unfortunately, while my copywriter knows what a dangling participle is, he doesn't have the slightest clue what a widget is. Unfortunately, I didn't know this before I agreed to pay my copywriter for his work. I guess I assumed by the fact that I advertised I was looking for somebody to write some copy on widgets, that the respondent would at least know they come in more than 2 colors.

Would it be better for me to turn down a finished piece?

Livenomadic

1:18 pm on Feb 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't intend on being a webmaster forum. I am just looking for some secondary income while I go through schooling.

However, I will admit one of the great benefits of this hobby has been my improving writing ability.

Content Writer

4:16 pm on Feb 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



One way to get past Roldar's dilemma is to foster a closer writer-webmaster relationship. Easier said than done, of course, but in my own experience I've found that when a client and I go through a few rewrites of specialized content at first, both parties benefit. The webmaster can be confident that the writing is up to par and the writer can knock out the rest of the content with ease and fluidity. What initially seem like hefty time and hr investments end up paying off in the end.

With highly specialized content it might be a good idea to make the following bold request: ask the writer to produce a *relevant* sample. Be sure to give him or her plenty of research materials, urls, etc. Make it clear that you'll buy the initial article and contract more writing if this sample is what you're looking for. If it's not what you're looking for, but they're on the right track, then send them back to the drawing board. (i.e. collaborate, foster the relationship, put your big heads together).

For all I know, many content providers might take offense at this type of overture. Personally, though, it's worked well for me when I have had clients whose have specific material/style requirements hadn't yet existed in my repertoire.

When webmasters get savvy to the basics of collaboration - and pay their writers well, of course - the writers in turn will lose their marxist lust and end up creating excellent content for the people who pay them, rather than splitting off and potentially competing with the very same webmasters.

VegasRook

6:25 am on Feb 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




My post is prompted by my hearing/reading a lot of writers saying 'there's no money in writing on the web'. You just have to take control of the business yourself.

The main question is: what type of writer are you—a fiction novelist that is stuck in a box? Yes, the quality opportunities out there is probably minimal. For those of us who know marketing--money is there in bundles. Writers who make those statements are most likely either:

1.Waiting for projects to fly through the door.
2.Trying to deal with too many one-man webmaster operations verses seeking projects with companies who are more prone to understand the content/marketing/etc world.
3.Do not have good writing ability (or at least not yet). Knowing how to write in complete sentences with all the proper punctuation is one thing—knowing how to captivate your audience is another.

Those who can't adapt to situations tend to fall by the wayside.


Unfortunately I think some writers have too big of heads. They definitely have a way with words, but sometimes it takes a deeper understanding of what you're writing about in order to produce a good article.

Big heads are everywhere. The problem in your situation is the writer (and perhaps you) did not write for the intended audience. An article about the risks of smoking will sound one way if the audience is the general public and completely different if the audience is comprised of doctors.

The writer should first ask: who is going to be reading this piece—before anything else. As a writer, understanding your audience completely will clue you in on if the job can be completed effectively. A good writer will research the material and gain an understanding of what is to be required and consult with the client for changed that must be made to ensure a solid piece of work. It sounds like the writer you hired did nothing properly.

martinibuster

6:49 am on Mar 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>>>rather than splitting off and potentially competing with the very same webmasters.

That's an important issue. Is your content writer trustworthy?

Content Writer

12:45 am on Mar 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>>>Is your content writer trustworthy?

Good point. All the more reason to develop a good relationship your writer. There's a lot of confidential information within content, and it's not a job for just anybody.

Short of relationship building, though, there are other factors that help to determine trustworthiness.

One of these is getting a writer on good recommendation. Pretty simple.

Another key determiner is the price your content writer charges. You might want to think twice before hiring someone to write 500 words for $3- $5. What are they really getting out of it?

By paying a little bit more you not only get good writing that you'll be proud to have on your website, but you'll get a long term writer you can trust.

It's worth it.