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These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered ... have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn ... We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/ [googleblog.blogspot.com]
Wow.
My question is: Did Google not know what they were getting into when they got involved with the Chinese government in the first place?
[edited by: tedster at 1:05 am (utc) on Jan. 13, 2010]
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Internet search company Google says it may end operations in China over alleged breaches of the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. (...) "If, as seems likely, the government refuses to allow it to operate an uncensored service, then Google will pull out. "That will leave other overseas web companies operating in China with difficult decisions to make"
Huge news - although diehard Google detractors may criticize the decision as being a ploy to put pressure on Google's US-based competitors who continue to operate and show censored search operations in China, this is a significant decision that cannot be explained away with pure business reasons alone.
Kudos to Google for this brave decision in support of human rights.
It doesn't surprise me it has turned out this way and I'm glad Google isn't turning a blind eye to it.
"we were willing to play along with the Chinese government until they decided to take what they wanted by force."
The Chinese government imposes strict censorship laws on search companies which severely limit free speech, yet that same government engages in (or at least supports or profits from) the hacking of those same search companies in total disregard for international and US law. Why should Google respect Chinese laws if the Chinese government ignores US law?
Larry, Sergey, and Schmidt: Enjoy your black eyes. It's for the best if it sobers you up from your know-it-all arrogance.
"These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China."
[edited by: bill at 1:59 am (utc) on Jan. 13, 2010]
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This comes shortly after Kai-Fu Lee leaving the President position at Google China [webmasterworld.com] and Baidu making impressive moves in the market. I hope this isn't a face-saving way for Google to back out of a market where they are not dominant.
U.S., Google take hard line on China Web censorship [reuters.com]
Jan 12 (Reuters) - The United States and Google Inc separately said they would move against Chinese Internet censorship, possibly signaling the start of a harder line toward China by U.S. President Barack Obama and the end of Google's business in the country.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton plans to help citizens in other countries, including China, get uncensored access to the Internet, and last week she met top executives from companies including Google, Microsoft Corp, Twitter and Cisco Systems Inc (...) Clinton will unveil the tech policy initiative on "Internet freedom" on Jan. 21.
U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley, responding to the Google move, said every nation should criminalize malicious activities on computer networks.
"I defer to Google for details of its decision. Google was in contact with us prior to the announcement. Every nation has an obligation, regardless of the origin of malicious cyber activities, to keep its part of the network secure. That includes China," Crowley said.
Baidu making impressive moves in the market. I hope this isn't a face-saving way for Google to back out of a market where they are not dominant.
whoops i was just posting this!
I believe Larry Page and Sergie Brin are probably thinking, 'yeah, maybe our business dealings with Hilter or Stalin or Mao won't looks so good in history books in the future.' in respect to selling their soul to Communist China for profits.
Google has relatively little to lose in China
... apart from the long-term potential that comes from a billion-plus population in a country with a technology and wealth boom, maybe? They went from nowhere to more than 25% of the market in four years against strong competition from Baidu, which was always the Chinese government's preferred company. Google's progress in that market was significant.
More like that Google has nothing to lose because they can't hope to run a successful business while catering to the whims of a corrupt, totalitarian government whose attempts to censor and control include state-sponsored criminal activity aimed at Google's core systems.
Why should Google respect Chinese laws if the Chinese government ignores US law?
This is a typical American view. There is absolutely no reason why any government (besides the US government) should respect US laws! If someone wants to make business in the US than he has to respect US law. If someone wants to make business in Nepal he has to respect Nepalese law. If someone wants to make business in China, he has to respect Chinese law! If we follow what you say then Dutch people can come to the US and start selling Cannabis! Why not? It is legal in Holland, why should the American government not respect Dutch law?
I don't think that there is any law in China against censorship, is there?
Now that China censors internet is another issue and if Google doesn't like then he should go or not even start doing his business there!
This event proved 2 things:
-China doesn't care about basic human rights (what a surprise)!
-Google is not that powerful that he can impose his will to a government!
There is absolutely no reason why any government (...) should respect US laws!
There most certainly is when that government is hacking into servers owned by a US company on US territory.
Granted, Google was initially hamstrung by the government of China for quite some time. Frequently inaccessible due to the Great Firewall, Google gained a reputation for poor reliability. That was when Baidu first took off.
Whether China's government is any more corrupt than any other government is certainly open to debate. Their censorship rules may not jive with a 'free' society, but it has arguably helped keep order among a billion + people. That order and focus is partially responsible for China's rising status/economy.
There is absolutely no reason why any government (...) should respect US laws!
There most certainly is when that government is hacking into servers owned by a US company on US territory.
Great! Welcome to the world! The CIA would never do such things, would they?
This is a typical American view.
That is the typical non-American view in respect to international laws as China is one of the largest violators of international trademarks, software piracy, and intellectual property infringement.
You really can't some one or a country serious if they blatantly steal from you.
Hell, the Chinese were selling ads for pirated versions of Windows on Baidu.
[online.wsj.com...]
Fact is that every government spies on every government and USA is not an example of good behavior or "ethical" behavior!
Google believed they were above governments and they were proven wrong! Are they really so surprised of what the Chinese government did? Yes? Then they are very naive!
Google, Microsoft Corp, Twitter and Cisco Systems Inc
Shame on you Google.
That is the typical non-American view in respect to international laws as China is one of the largest violators of international trademarks, software piracy, and intellectual property infringement.
So what? There is no real international law in this area Unlike, for example, with regard to war - now lets see who has been breaking that recently?). There are some treaties that are the result of US pressure and lobbying (Sonny Bono copyright term extension act, software patents, etc for example) that put corporate profits before the interests of the people the governments are supposed to serve.
Breach of copyright or patents is not theft, it is a breach of a government granted monopoly - a very free market thing to do.
...yet...
here's what Google's Eric Schmidt said back in April 2006 when they were defending their engagement and censorship in China:
"The number one goal, by far, is to serve the Chinese citizen who wants information."
"We at Google have a mission to serve all the people in the world."
"We have made commitments to the Chinese government that we absolutely follow Chinese law."
"We don't have an alternative."
and
"There are many cases where certain information is not allowed by law or by custom, and we've made a decision that we have to respect the local law and local custom. [...] It's not an option for us to broadly make available information that is illegal, inappropriate, immoral or what have you."
Soooo, despite what critics said to Google back then, it took them almost four years to realize what they were doing? (This is strange.)
What amazes me is that they -back then- argued that they were just complying with the individual laws of a country. I bet that the legal situation in China has not changed one bit. Maybe the "attacks" were even in line with Chinese laws (with the attackers coming from a Chinese government agency?).
Google again has shown that noone can trust them (not even the Chinese regime in exchange for access to one of the most important future markets).
Also, I sense that there must be more behind this decision. Google is driven by financials. Probably they did not earn the market share and revenues they expected?
Withdrawing from China may affect their company value massively as growth potential is now seriously limited. Probably they should rewrite their mission statement as they can not serve China and the Chinese any longer.
This affects their business probably in more ways than just search. I guess that if they part with the Chinese government (who will most likely not stop censorship because of Google), anything Google will be banned from China. Device manufacturers that embed Google products (on laptops or handsets) may be forced to remove this software before being allowed for sale in China.
Thus, IF they part, it will be massive.
If they DO NOT part and keep censoring, it was all just a PR stunt from MV.
I admit I have no idea what's going on here, and my guess is only as good (or as bad) as the next guy's, but it sounds like they're using the gmail snafu as an excuse to make a strategic move that was considered for a long time. Quite possibly, one related to aligning themselves more closely with the US government and its security agencies. Or perhaps just to show the government "whose side they are on".
If you think this might be a business decision Google is making to cut their losses and leave or seriously reduce operations in China (where they are not the top dog *cough*Baidu*cough*), using the human rights violations as a great cover story, vote B.
Reminds me of those Western companies that were shocked when Putin Inc confiscated their properties with bogus tax charges.
Would you care to remind me exactly which Western property was confiscated by Putin Inc? It's been a few years already and my memory is a little hazy, but I am an avid reader of the world press and I simply don't think there were any. (Yukos, if you're thinking that, was not a Western company).
Anyway, closer to our topic, Russia is indeed another market where Google is not #1, despite years' worth of efforts. Should we expect something of the same nature there?
Vote B, but wondering about that Google investment in Baidu (is it still the case that Google is shareholder of Baidu?).
