Forum Moderators: phranque
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¦ POLL = I Alpha Test complex web applications: ¦
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A. On a local server on my desktop computer (Linux, Apache, PWS/IIS, etc.)
B. Only on the WWW
C. Depends on the job (mix of desktop server & www)
D. Not my level of expertise
E. I'm still trying to figure out Cookies (o;
For me, I'm 90% inclinded to be an "A", and 10% a "C", because I completely develop in a test (Alpha) bed, then, and only after local server version runs are error-free, upload to WWW, for BETA testing.
To qualify this post: I am an Internet Database developer, with 10+ years experience, and I am currently developing in-house for a local ISP. The NetAdmin's a real noobie to systems administration, non-degreed, self-taught, and as anal about M$ auto-patching as they come. This guys' basically a really good guy, but he doesn't understand the importance of having either an IIS or a PWS (NT/Asp ISP) local dev server. I'm seriously getting ready to take all 150 CDs in the MSDN library next to my desk, and making frisbee's out of them! (*not*) Just looking for feedabck, to make a case/presentation the 'he' will be able to relate to. Thanks in advance for everyones' feedback, re: this Poll.
I test offline and when it works move it online. Most of the time.
Sometimes I get overly eager and think I can do it live, only to have it bite me.
My favorite mistake:
creating a recordset, writing the HTML to display it in a While!EOF loop, and forgetting the MoveNext at the end.
Infinite loop city!
the only thing I can do it stop and start IIS and cross my fingers I didn't knock off too many customers.
D'OH!
Test off line. Test off line.
Linux all the way, my system mirrors my hosts pretty well so I only ever have to alter a couple of config files to go live...
Welcome to WebmasterWorld ;)
Nick
My favorite mistake:creating a recordset, writing the HTML to display it in a While!EOF loop, and forgetting the MoveNext at the end.
Infinite loop city!
LOL! This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!
Our Noob NetAdmin just doesn't get it. He's told all management (behind my back) that I don't know how to code. The truth is, when you're setting traps & breakpoints, you can lock up a server which is a serious NO-NO :: especially when it's your entire ISPs %root% web!
Awesome feedback folks. Awesome.
We use a trio of dedicated servers for alpha, beta, live. All configured exactly the same (sunfires with php, oracle etc). The alpha server is only viewable by the coders(at work or home). Beta is available to everyone in house and live is, well, live.
We do some dev on local machines as well for pre alpha I hope this won't kill the server but not too much.
Right now I'm actually running a beta of a major update on the local dev machine with live traffic, got a PR4 and 500 pages indexed ;)
It's the best way to make sure everything is straight.
SN
I have and will always be an "Alpha-Not-Live" kind of developer, and, from what I have been able to ascertain, it appears that at least the majority of "complex builds" {meaning, a mix of HTML, (ChoiceOf)Script, and (ChoiceOf)DB Interface} developers, feel the same. Hence; 4 "A's", (100% so far)
** Alpha Local
>> Finished product live. <<
I have similar polls running on 6 different WebMaster-Type forums, and the results -- accross the board -- are very similar. Here is a running tally so far:
A - 47%
B - 11%
C - 37%
D - 5%
E - 0%
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t = 100%
A clear 94% of all complex websites are built on (at least) some degree of local server installation, where almost half are exclusive to local-alpha boxes.
I'd really like to thank everyone who has participated, for taking the time to help me out with your input. Now, the question I need to ask is; .....
"How do you get these kinds of numbers through, to a *you can't tell me anything, I know everything, it's my network* Noobie NetAdmin, without hurting his feelings?"
"How do you get these kinds of numbers through, to a *you can't tell me anything, I know everything, it's my network* Noobie NetAdmin, without hurting his feelings?"
walk softly and carry a big stick ;)
If you have the resources to do it (i.e. two desktop computers), you really ought to have a dev server and a staging server *in addition* to your live server. You always *always* do alpha on the dev server, then launch to staging for beta testing. The staging server should always be setup and configured as an exact duplicate of the live server.
Three stages because the dev server usually can't be configured exactly like a public-accessible webserver; it's just impractical. But when you're testing your code, you ALWAYS have to launch to a server that's configured exactly as the live server, lest a single difference in user permissions take down your live server.
The staging server also acts as a backup to the dev server, in case things go wildly awry in your attempts to debug something on the dev server. But that's just a secondary point and a nice bonus.
If you're really not worried about the live server going down for 20-25 minutes, then you can skip staging and go from dev to live and if things go wrong, just restore a backup and debug on the dev. But the only time you should ever skip the alpha test on the dev server is if you just don't care about the server going kablooie for a couple hours. ;) I reference Murphy's Law, here.
walk softly and carry a big stick ;)
Sinclair said (among other great feedback):
You always *always* do alpha on the dev server
I too am mostly self taught, with a nice sprinkling of formal technical education, self taught for certification's (A+, i-Net+, & Network+), and, privately educated for undergrad degree. And, I couldn't agree more with your insights. NetAdmin has never been a developer, and, therefore, doesn't understand the value/effectiveness of the tool. We've got M$IIS 5.x on our LAN, and all of our WWW servers are now co-located, saving us ~$20K/mo. (We're a small ISP)
See, there are some things that I have been able to drill into his head. btw, I think I'll wrap the big stick with Charmin to cushion the blow (o;
[edited by: DaveAtIFG at 12:15 am (utc) on Sep. 8, 2003]
[edit reason] Removed a few "=" to avoid side scrolling [/edit]
